5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Not today - FD yesterday (ate a large amount of beetroot which probably wasn’t a great idea!).

Hope you have a good day BigChoc (& any other fasters).

Mini NSV - did a non beginners yoga class last night & I didn’t completely embarrass myself ... was a bit wobbly in parts of the sequence but my balance has got way better without me noticing.

I might do a mini-FD today. I had quite a lot of Easter chocolate last night, along with a Chinese takeaway and some wine . I felt pretty grim when I went to bed and woke up this morning really feeling as if a fast would be a good idea today! So I've two coffees today (one black, one with a small splash of cream) and might see if I can make it to dinner with perhaps just a Bovril this afternoon.

I have been toying with the idea of moving to 4:3. I am starting to really quite enjoy the feeling I get on FDs - I feel 'light' and have much more energy, and like the idea that I'm giving my body a rest from food.

Or I wondered about perhaps doing two proper FDs (500 cals) and two minis (500-1000 cals) Mon-Thurs and then keeping Fri-Sun as TDEE (or, if I'm really honest, perhaps slightly over ) days.

Any thoughts? Has anyone else moved to 4:3 or done something similar to what I'm thinking of?

I do 4:3 Maud (two FD in the week (sometimes b2b) & then one weekend day). I'm happier doing three fasts - I don't worry so much about what to eat on NFDs & it gives me more flexibility for socialising without guilt! I enjoy the FDs too - physically (IBS etc) and mentally - I think they are good for me.

Well done on your yoga NSV, Lania

maud I recommend you don't fast on 4 days per week, unless you are also doing Mosely's Mediteranean low carb 7 days per week.
His lc diet ensures you get plenty of nutrients even while fasting

If you aren't low carbing, then learn how to eat around TDEE on NFDs, so you will be able to maintain once you reach goal
To speed things up, you could add a miniFD on Friday or the weekend, because that would help reduce weekend indulgence and hence maintain the FD deficit over the week

4:3 often doesn't lead to quicker loss for those who have problems on NFDs, because they automatically eat more on NFDs and cancel out the extra FD
Getting NFDs under control is essential for longterm weight control and maintenance

Hallo everyone. Signing back in after 2 weeks off over Easter. I’ve not weighed in awhile but clothes wise things feel reasonable. I’m hoping that a weeks skiing will have cancelled out some of the Xs!!

So fd1 today. I’ve found it hard! Going to do b2b today and tomorrow.

Hope FD is going well for others

Hello all, may I join you and immediately be a pest with lots of questions?? I've just skim read the Fast 800 book today though I had read lots of stuff about it online and here so fairly clued in. But I'm hoping to adapt lots of my standard meals and then it will be easier for me to manage. So with that in mind, are the following foods allowed:
Quark (e.g. Arla Protein or Lindahls Kvarg esp.the straciatella or vanilla - they have no added sugar and are high protein and really filling for a late breakfast);
Flour or old fashioned Bisto powder ( I know, terrible!) to thicken gravy;
Bananas (as part of a meal);
Parsnips;
Mayonnaise (shop bought).

I'm sure there's more but I can plan this week's meals if I know these few things. I'm fairly sure it's a no for most of them though!

Starting tomorrow one way or another, feel like a big lump of lard at the minute, sluggish, achy and considerably more than my 45 years. So it HAS to change. Will be glad of the Mumsnetters wisdom and support.

Welcome, Ernie and good luck

As you have the Fast800 book, Mosely has low carb Mediteranean meal plans & recipes to give you an idea

Also, recipes on Mosely's BSD & Fast800 sites:

thebloodsugardiet.com/recipes-by-diet-type/low-carb/ Fast800
https://thefast800.com/articles-and-recipes/

His Mediterranean low carb emphasises fish, eggs, non-starchy veg, beans / lentils / peas, natural (unflavoured) Greek yoghurt, moderate amounts of nuts, seeds, olive oil

No starches or added sugar allowed.

Anyone doing ordinary 5:2 - without low carb - should ignore these answers:

Quark:
The natural (unflavoureded), or savoury quark with herbs are fine, BUT none of the sweet flavours, same for yoghurt

• even if those flavours don't have disguised added sugar, Mosely collected research showing that artificial sweeteners change gut flora which longterm usually increases fat storage.

Also avoid flavoured fizzy drinks with sweeteners

Flour: No, it's a starch

Bisto: poor ingredients, but 100 ml - made as instructed - is only 15 cals, so acceptable

Bananas: No, too high sugar
Have maximum 2 portions of low sugar fruit, e.g. berries, apple, pear
Avoid high sugar tropical fruit like banana, mango, pineapple

Parsnips: No, they are starchy

Mayonnaise:
Not banned, but it has about 100 cals per tbsp, so imo it's a poor choice if you only have 800 calories for the day.
For salads, try balsamic vinegar / cider vinegar / lemon / 1 tbsp vinaigrette (olive oil & vinegar)

A good Fast800 breakfast is natural (unflavoured) Greek yoghurt or Quark with cinammon, berries & a few seeds or flaked almonds

Oh thanks Bigchoc! Disappointed re: flavoured quark, though not surprised about any of your answers. Have bought ff greek yog so will try your suggestion.

Another quickie - is a dash of milk in my tea very bad? I can cope without food for longer if I can have proper tea but will it prevent ketosis/autophagy?

ernie You will be fasting and experiencing autophagy so long as you stick to the Fast800 800 cals, with no added sugar, no alcohol

Are you asking about milk during the minimum 12-hour overnight fast that Mosely recommends ?
Try to keep that zero calorie, so water only, or tea / coffee without milk, sugar or sweeteners

Otherwise, during the eating window, milk is ok in hot drinks
Perfect on Fast80: almond or cashew milk, which don't have lactose (milk sugar) and are also much lower cal than cows' milk
(I have European-sourced almond milk, so without the environmental concerns)

Mosely recommends 3 meals, no snacks between, during the eating window

Morning all,

Checking in for a Monday FD here. Have some cajun chicken in the freezer which wi be consumed alongside a mountain of veg I suspect.

Anyone else going for Monday?

I’m doing today too MrD. I’m going with poached egg on ww bread (50 cals per slice) for lunch. And I’ve got a ready meal lasagne plus salad for dinner

Another one for Monday here! Hello mrd and borris. Not sure about food yet - I suspect a large omelette and pile of veg around lunchtime, and that's it bar coffees here and there.

Morning both, food options sounding good all round!

Thanks Laniakea and BCF - good advice! I will probably then aim for 4:3 every week, so then if I only manage 5:2 or 5:2 and a mini I've not really scuppered anything.

I had a successful FD yesterday and have woken up today feeling as if I could quite happily do another, so might turn it into a b2b. I reckon if I do Monday, Weds and Friday, with Friday being the 'flexible' day, that will keep me on the straight and narrow (hips)

I'm just loving the feeling of not being bloated and full of food all the time! Is that a bit weird??

Yess me too! Am sneaking in a fast day, I hate doing one when I'm not working though

Waves to MrD, Borris and Hummus.

The meals sound fab. I have chicken breasts and tons of veg in the fridge for tonight. Have had two teas and a coffee, will keep drinking lots and have marmite later on. Maybe a swim this afternoon.
Welcome Ernie and Lashes

Sounds like a good plan hoochie!

Good luck, MrD, Borris, Hummus, hoochy, Maud and any other Monday fasters
Sounds like good menus

Almost 10am and haven't eaten yet! This is unheard of for me as in recent months I'd have had toast (probably with both butter and peanut butter or jam) and maybe a banana and yoghurt or porridge (so two breakfasts basically!). As I can't bear black tea or coffee I just had water and a multivitamin until after 10am when i had tea and breakfast. Yog, chia seeds and berries for about 160 cals. Soup for lunch at 110 cals with an apple if I'm still hungry. Dinner of meat and veg though haven't decided the recipe yet! Feel confident about today.

Tomorrow will be a harder day. Travelling by train to work (over 2 hours) to a meeting where food is provided (amazing scones on arrival and a sandwich lunch so obv can't partake in any of that). Will bring breakfast and eat on the train, but will struggle with lunch! Any suggestions?

Ernie sounds like a fab start. Can I reccomend if you are still hungry after your soup you have a small piece of protein instead of an apple - a small piece of cheese / ham / chicken / whatever. As an apple may make you feel hunrgrier for the same calories - depending on how many you have spare of course!

Could you take a chicken / prawn salad or something with you tomorrow?

ernie That's the problem with Fast800 compared to 5:2 - with 5:2 you'd just move the FD ro another day, but Fast800 is rigid and really restricts normal life

I suggest a tub of Greek salad with feta cheese / halloumi - weigh for the calories,
and olives, mixed bell peppers, sundried tomato, cherry tomato, celery, baby spinach, 1/2 teasp dried oregano
(and best to omit onion on a business lunch !)
dressed with balsamic vinegar (as there is plenty of oil in the imgredients)

Wow, lost of chat to catch up on from the weekend! Well done on the blood donation MrDarcy- I really must book myself an appointment! We had a busy weekend with the PILs here and DS2's birthday party yesterday.

Monday FD here, did my usual 6.30am spin class this morning and walk back from the school run. Making a birthday cake today for DS2's birthday tomorrow, so there may have been a little bit of licking the spoon- I'll allocate 100 cals to that . Trying to keep going on water and green or peppermint tea until dinner time, when I'll have a vegetable fritatta with plenty of side salad.

Tomorrow will be a bit of a dinner out and birthday cake frenzy, but I'm not in a hurry to loose weight so I won't stress about it.

Good luck to all other Monday FDers!

Good luck, earslaps
You are showing you are an old hand at this, counting the spoon-licking