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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

973 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 02:54

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
OohMrDarcy · 25/04/2019 20:07

Hi all

FD complete, no real idea on cals tbh as was at a last minute training day with food supplied. I picked wisely and focused on protein/ salad so hopefully not above 5/600.

Giving blood tomorrow so was my only option. I figured best plan was just to have the one meal as normal and be super sensible with it. Today has involved NOT eating chocolate brownies (with the lunch) or mc Donald's this evening (with DS)... I'm taking that as a win, it's as good as it could have been really.

Not sure whether to weigh in tomorrow as after 2nd FD or Saturday as my normal weekly slot, will prob do both and pick the lowest Grin

Sorry not caught up on thread, feels very neglectful on a FD!

harriethoyle · 25/04/2019 20:21

Lololol @oohmrd Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 25/04/2019 20:28

Well done, earslaps, MrD

OP posts:
DrWhy · 25/04/2019 20:41

Good work on the FDs folks.
No FD here but I’ve managed to stay under TDEE so that’s a good start and I did my first exercise class in a very long time! It was sunny and everyone was very welcoming so I’ll be back on Monday for the next one.

OohMrDarcy · 26/04/2019 07:19

Todays weigh in says 15st 6.4lb which is a loss of 1.2lb and takes the total to 2st 6lb.

EssentialHummus · 26/04/2019 07:20

That sounds like a perfect way back into exercise dr, well done!

FD yesterday was fine - usual ready meal and pile of veg at lunchtime, with three or four coffees over the day. I battled a bit in the evening so had an early night and have actually woken up before the toddler today, which is a rare treat. Down to 71.6 (about .5kg/1.3lbs) since last weigh-in and again, I'm seeing real changes to my shape, which is a great motivator.

EssentialHummus · 26/04/2019 07:21

Well done mrD!

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 26/04/2019 08:21

Morning all, happy Friday! FD for me today, working from home so will try and stay away from the biscuit tin! I feel a bit digestively sluggish at the mo so will be drinking plenty of water and peppermint tea...

Good luck to everyone fasting today.

nolongersurprised · 26/04/2019 09:29

Well done on the SVs mrd and Hummus.

Friday evening and I’ve just finished my second FD, my first was Monday. Coffees and water during the day and I’ve just had 100cal of brown rice and some vege curry DH made. Quite nice to fast after all the food prep and meals associated with guests. If I add up the skim milk in coffees I’m at 650 or so but that’s usual for me, I’ve never made 500cal.

Because I got close to the end of a FD on Wednesday and then stopped when preparing food and nibbles for guests I’m being a bit more relaxed about today, I don’t want the process to feel too punitive!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/04/2019 10:06

welcome back alltalk and well done on your SV mrd and hummus Grin

maud I hope you get moving soon Grin

FD here today, I'm STARVING at the moment, got big belly rumbles going on, but will hold out until lunchtime, subway turkey salad, 2 satsumas and a sugar free jelly, so loads really. Think I'll take the easy option and just get another subway salad for dinner, so should be around 520 cals with a few more cups of tea

BigChocFrenzy · 26/04/2019 10:40

Congratulations on your SVs, MrD, Hummus
and in your shape NSVs
Good steady progress

Well done on resuming exercise, DrWhy
A welcoming class is perfect, so you can look forward to Monday's class

Maud When you say NO to biscuits on your FD, it helps to know you can have a couple tomorrow / your next NFD, for pud

43 You'd stay fuller longer this FD if you drop one of the satsumas and double up the turkey instead
With Subway, careful of their dressings - some are quite calorific.
I often say no dressing and take a small jar of mustard or horseradish with me

Well done on your FD2, surprised

Good luck, Maud, 43 and any other Friday fasters

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/04/2019 10:43

thanks bcf advice noted..... I'll nip out and get some extra turkey

alltalknobaby · 26/04/2019 12:00

NFD here and I'm out for dinner and drinks later, I'm not going to be too restrictive as it's a very rare treat for me.

Lunch first though... does anyone else find themselves paralysed with indecision on NFDs - it's like there's suddenly too much choice 😂

Thanks 43 👋🏻

Everyone is doing really well, it's very motivating reading through this thread 💪🏻

OohMrDarcy · 26/04/2019 12:52

Waving hi from the blood donation suite. Happy Friday all.

43 hope you managed to double up that Turkey!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/04/2019 18:45

Well done giving blood mrd hope you got a tasty treat afterwards Grin

Just eaten my salad whilst dh and ds had pizza Envy I could murder a glass of wine too.... but will have it tomorrow so fd done on 530 Halo actual wedding anniversary tomorrow so we are going to have a lovely meal at home, ds wants to help us cook it... moules marniere to start followed by crab and prawn ravioli with a red pesto sauce.... mmmmmm oh and a few glasses of fizz and wine!

Hope all the other Fri fasters are managing well Smile

EssentialHummus · 26/04/2019 19:05

Congrats on the anniversary 43, that meal sounds perfect!

What was the treat mrd? Grin

OohMrDarcy · 26/04/2019 19:12

It was an orange club day for my post donation snack, I do love the excuse of needing to eat something!

Happy anniversary for tomorrow 43!

BigChocFrenzy · 26/04/2019 19:59

Well done, 43
and congratulations on your anniversary tomorrow 💐

Good for you, donating blood, MrD 💐

Alltalk If I go out in the evening for a big meal, I fast until then, or have a small salad / soup lunch

OP posts:
LashesZ · 26/04/2019 22:16

Hello all, I'd love to join if that's okay? I'm back on the fasting lifestyle since DD has transitioned to formula in preparation for my return to work. I successfully 5:2'd a few years ago and got down to 9 stone odd but currently 11 stone 3 so looking to lose the baby weight.
Just finished my second FD of the week coming up to 490 cals so gonna have a 10 cal jelly to celebrate Grin

nolongersurprised · 26/04/2019 23:11

Welcome, lashes!

I don’t know how (given the big family dinners and booze over Easter) but I’m down 700g to 65.1kg, only 1.1kg to go. I’ve lost 10.4kg in total. I might celebrate with new jeans. My favourite ones fit because I didn’t chuck them out when I gained the weight but my day-to-day ones are slipping off my hips when I walkSmile.

I haven’t exercised much this week with guests and I’m trying to muster up motivation for a run.

OohMrDarcy · 27/04/2019 07:09

Morning all

Official Saturday weigh in has me an extra pound down.. so that is 2.2lb for the week and also means I hit 2 and a half stone in total. 🎉

Welcome lashes, keep posting!

Congrats on another SV surprised! So close to goal now!

EssentialHummus · 27/04/2019 07:43

Well done no, well done mrD, wonderful way to start the weekend!

BigChocFrenzy · 27/04/2019 11:22

Welcome, lashes Smile
and well done on your FDs
When starting / resuming fasting, it's useful to make it a habit to enjoy your weekend,
but sensibly, so you don't eat back the FD calorie deficit

Congratulations on your SV and 2.5 stone milestone, MrD

Well done too on your SV and progress, surprised
That's encouraging for maintenance that you can lose so near to goal with Easter feasts

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 27/04/2019 14:58

Welcome lashes

Fantastic SVs nolonger and mrd

I didn't bother weighing today as totm arrived this morning (nevermind any indulgence from easter weekend) going to enjoy my anniversary dinner and try to be sensible tomorrow, maybe even go for a mini if I can.

Wet, windy and freezing here, brrrrr

BigChocFrenzy · 28/04/2019 10:18

Cool, wet & windy here too, but after an April week @26C, I'm optimistic about summer

I'm fasting today, anyone else ?

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