Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

973 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 02:54

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
OohMrDarcy · 29/04/2019 15:03

Afternoon all - kitchen closed on 520 today with a shed load of cajun chicken and veg in a late lunch. Enough left for a cup of tea tonight plus plenty of water.

Earslaps - well done allocating something to that spoon lick, that plus spin at 6.30am makes you hardcore in my book!

Forgot to say I did another walk in the new forest yesteday - about 4.5 miles with the kids. Lots of up and down a hilly bit so felt like a good work out.

Am going camping this weekend without the kids, so currently planning to make sure its a reasonably healthy one - there is definitely a habit of eating crap when camping because it is often easier! So far I've planned to do a beef casserole for dinner Friday and I'll make enough so that I can take a portion with me to reheat for dinner Saturday. Will probably have a BBQ sunday evening and try to focus on protein with that - just need to plot how to keep the veg up and deal with lunches now. Really looking forward to a few days off grid properly relaxing (work has been rather stressful the last few weeks - and see BigChoc, still going strong this time Wink ) Lots of walks / reading / chill time planned.

erniewise · 29/04/2019 15:07

Thanks all for the advice - I can't really take a salad with me as it's not the kind of meeting where I can take my own food out. I am supposed to be on the train home at 3.30 so I will just have to hope I can get away early enough to get a salad in a café or something and resist temptation until I do! I'll maybe take some egg muffins with me on the train in the morning for breakfast instead as I think they might sustain me longer than fruit and yoghurt.
You're right @BigChocFrenzy, this is the difficulty with Fast800 but my plan is to do the first two weeks and then reassess and go to a 5:2 or 4:3 to give me that flexibility. One day at a time for now!

Earslaps · 29/04/2019 15:51

MrDarcy- there may have been more than one lick... had to test the icing too Grin. I think that might be why I'm struggling now- will have a gherkin before I set off on school run.

harriethoyle · 29/04/2019 16:19

A late Monday faster checking in! Might b2b with tomorrow but sticking to 500 in case I don't... courgette soup for lunch, c.140 cals and an M and S ready meal for tea (it's lush btw, is their onion bhaji chicken curry and is properly tasty for 382 cals)

BigChocFrenzy · 29/04/2019 16:23

Good luck, Harriet

Well done on nailing your FD, MrD
Your New Forest walk yesterday sounds fab

It's an important new habit NSV, that you can manage sensible eating while camping without DC

errnie To make those egg muffins low carb:

www.dietdoctor.com/recipes/keto-egg-muffins

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 29/04/2019 16:27

and if you think yoúd finish early afternoon, then you could take your Greek salad tub to eat on the train back home

  • it would keep as there is no meat or egg
OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 29/04/2019 20:06

Well done ear, mrd, harriet.

Kitchen closed here (though I'm about to brush my teeth to make sure it stays closed!). For lunch I had this from Heinz (260 cal for the whole thing) with a boiled egg and a pile of veg, then a biscuit in the evening (not planned, end of my rope with the toddler) and quite a lot of coffee. I think even with the 75 cal biscuit I'm probably at around 550-600 for the day.

No b2b tomorrow as it's again a bit of a funny week for me ito childcare, so I'm planning to fast on Wednesday.

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind
EssentialHummus · 29/04/2019 20:07

bigchoc that egg muffin recipe looks right up my street, thanks for that!

Borris · 29/04/2019 20:33

Well done fasters. I’ve hit around the 650 which is fine for b2b.

Somehow I feel more in control now I’m back on the fasting wagon after 2 weeks off. Although someone at work said I looked lovely and slim today so maybe there’s not been too much damage Smile

Ithinkyourewonderful · 29/04/2019 20:58

Well done Monday Fasters!

I'm planning a fast tomorrow as I had swimming and yoga today Halo and needed more energy. I've been generally eating better on NFDs but have noticed a bit of mindless snacking creeping in (spoon licking when baking, picking from unfinished kids meals etc Blush) so I think that snacking is really going to be a hard one for me to break. I think that I don't eat enough sometimes at meal times to keep me going through the day so I'm going to try and keep an eye on that more too.

I still notice that I get a shaky, dizzy, low-blood sugar feeling often on FDs. I eat lunch and dinner, drink lots and eat eggs or some kind of protein for each meal. Is this normal?

BigChocFrenzy · 29/04/2019 22:17

Hummus The egg muffins are so quick & easy - somtimes I have them with salad for a min FD mal.
I have the plain version with bacon, no pesto

Well done, hummus, Borris

Wonderful Stopping the snacking habit is important for weight loss & weight management

"little pickers need bigger knickers"

Also, stop eating DC leftovers
"There is a rubbish bin in the kitchen, which shouldn‘t be you"
Value yourself more.

If you feel shaky on FDs:

  1. Next FD, have a teasp Marmite in the morning - glug it down like medicine.
    It helps avoid headaches and weakness caused by low salt & minerals that your body may experience before adapting to fasting

  2. If that doesn't help, then the problem may be unstable blood sugar

In that case, next week go to 800 cal FDs, adding a small protein breakfast

  • eggs are especially good to start the day, if you have blood sugar problems, instead of yoghurt / fruit / porridge etc.

Mosely wrote for BSD / Fast800 that those with blood sugar problems often need 3 meals and the extra calories
That makes the WOE sustainable, hence they lose better than trying to force 500-600 Fds

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 29/04/2019 22:20

< oops iPad > hummus egg muffins .... somtimes I have them with salad for a main FD meal.

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 30/04/2019 08:43

morning everyone, wow yesterday went by in a blur, non-stop at work, then by the time I got home and sorted DS, DDog etc it was time for pilates then off to bed!

Nfd today, planning fd tomorrow and fri this week.

Welcome ernie and welcome back borris hope you had a wonderful holiday Smile

Well done to all the mon fasters, and good luck to the tues gang Smile

harriethoyle · 30/04/2019 10:28

Who's with me in a Tuesday fast? I hit 520 yesterday so 780 for today which feels like LOADS Grin Got a tuna sandwich with me and am having a lidl fishcake for my tea (282 and properly tasty). Might have some beans with it, might stick to broc - the FD world is my oyster! 🙈

Ithinkyourewonderful · 30/04/2019 11:20

I'm with you Tuesday Fasters! Thanks BigChoc for the advice. I think I do have blood sugar problems as I have always struggled with this. But I'll give today another go at around 500 cal and see if its any better. I'll have some Marmite vegemite now! I've been fine so far with tea/coffee and a bit of almond milk and its almost lunchtime. Will have an omelette for lunch and lentil and carrot soup for dinner. Hopefully the eggs will help my blood sugar through the afternoon.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2019 12:16

Good luck on your b2b, Harriet

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2019 12:17

and wonderful - didn't see you Blush

OP posts:
alltalknobaby · 30/04/2019 12:26

Hi fellow Tuesday fasters 👋🏻

Tea for breakfast, ready meal (321) for lunch. Planning about another 300 cals or so today (so a mini I guess but sub 500 is just too low for me) in the form of a boiled egg, natural yoghurt and fruit. Maybe a bag of steamed veg if I'm struggling.

Good luck everyone else today 😊

nolongersurprised · 30/04/2019 12:30

I’ve just finished my Tuesday FD. One of those really easy ones, don’t know why. Coffee with almond milk and water till 6 then brown rice and left over beef casserole (not too much). Cup of tea at 8 30 and I’m done. I hope Thursday’s FD is this easy as well.

alltalknobaby · 30/04/2019 14:34

Never had an easy FD surprised. What's your secret!? Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2019 15:22

That's great, surprised
Protein, veg and a slow-burn carb for a single meal, plus hot drinks - it's a good system that works for many

Good luck, Alltalk
Some folk need 700-800, due to blood sugar instability.
The main thing is to find a fasting system you can follow sustainably
Just be a bit watchful to stay around TDEE on NFDs, as your FD deficit is slightly smaller

OP posts:
erniewise · 30/04/2019 15:26

Meeting over and resisted the lure of delicious fluffy scones and amazing sandwiches. Had water and tea while everyone else stuffed their faces. Must admit day 2 of Fast800 is tougher going than yesterday but with careful planning and determination I WILL DO THIS! 😁 Had eggs for breakfast, bought a Subway turkey salad after the meeting (their website says it's 110 cals and I didn't eat it all, had some light dressing on it) and have a chicken and veg curry made already for dinner which I'll have with cauli rice. May be a few cals over 800 as I had quite a lot of tea with milk (I just can't have it without) but for a day away from the office, I'm ok with that. One day at a time!

hoochymamgu · 30/04/2019 15:34

Well done Ernie Smile

erniewise · 30/04/2019 15:55

Thank you! I've realised that it's ok to be hungry and that I can still function knowing when and what my next meal will be. Need a nice new notebook for all the planning I'm going to be doing!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/04/2019 19:38

Well done on a challenging day, ernie

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread