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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 84: Exercise hack - Fartlek = interval training with non-regular intervals; Fartleg = lie sideways watching TV and gently raise a leg to break wind

973 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2019 02:54

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Moongirl10 · 24/04/2019 11:45

Morning all. Haven’t been here in a while but back on it today as I have put 4lbs back on! Breakfast is blueberries, lunch is salmon and broccoli and then dinner will be a small ready meal with some spinach. Good luck today fasters.

Parsley65 · 24/04/2019 13:13

Hi All.

I had some family stuff going on and fell off the wagon big time!
Been feeling lousy for the last couple of weeks and now that I've polished off all the Easter eggs really need to get my act together... 5/2 has worked for me in the past and so I started yesterday and could do with a hand hold.
Look forward to reading about all your adventures Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 24/04/2019 14:12

Welcome, parsley, moongirl
Good luck to you both

Well done on your clothes and healthy eating NSVs, MrD

Friday sounds a good plan, 43

Congratulations on your SV, wonderful
It's a big milestone, breaking through 62kg when you have rarely been this weight before.

Many 5:2ers have got to their original goal and then decided they can comfortably lose more.
See how you feel at 60 kg. You may find loss becomes very slow, but it's not a race

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/04/2019 14:31

fab SV wonderful so so close!!!

welcome back moon and parsley, you know it works so good luck with it

Had a lunch of 1 piece of toast, 2 scrambled eggs, some baked beans and half a triple choc cookie I baked over Easter [yum]

having chicken kiev and loads of veg for dinner so should be well under goal tdee....

harriethoyle · 24/04/2019 21:36

Evening all! Kitchen closed on 696 for day 2 of b2b... I'll take that! Having a cup of herbal tea before bed and thinking about delicious food tomorrow Grin although I might do a mini as there's a possibility of a sober supper on fri pre airport run...

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/04/2019 21:44

Well done harriet

Successful nfd to goal tdee today, I really had to fight hard to resist pouring myself a g&t though, it felt good to make a cup of tea instead and not be so weak willed. Off for early night, another goal nfd tomorrow for me, starting to feel the onset of totm too so next couple of days gonna be a test, hope it's not like last month and a week of symptoms before any sign Angry

Well done all you weds fasters Smile

DrWhy · 24/04/2019 22:43

Essential and BCF my ‘sprint’ tri’s tend to be just short rather than fast! I could swim forever and in the past I’ve got my running up to longer distances although I don’t hugely enjoy it but it’s finding time to do longer bikes that’s the issue, especially now with the children. I can’t just spend 5 or 6 hours cycling round the countryside on a Saturday anymore! So ‘sprints’ it is for now. I suspect I’m going to give the place for my end of May one to a friend who’s on the waiting list as I just don’t think I’ll be fit enough by then but the July one I’ll definitely do, it will be interesting to compare my time to having done the same one while pregnant.

DrWhy · 24/04/2019 23:08

nolonger can I ask how much you have lost so far? Just looking for inspiration/realism, sorry if that’s too nosy.

I tracked my day with MFP today thinking I’d have a week of TDEE eating after the bug then start the FDs. I knew it wasn’t a great day but it’s been by no means awful compared to my recent eating and I came in at over 1900 cals! That’s about 100 over current TDEE and about 300 over goal. No wonder breastfeeding isn’t making me loose weight, I’m more than eating back the calories! Plan tomorrow is to log them before I eat them so I know where I am.

Moongirl10 · 25/04/2019 02:09

Fast day finished at 546 cals. Was tempted when my husband offered me wine but I said no!

nolongersurprised · 25/04/2019 04:54

nolonger can I ask how much you have lost so far? Just looking for inspiration/realism, sorry if that’s too nosy.

9.7kg Smile. It’s taken nearly 4.5 months; I lost about 700g/week till I was back in the 60s, then it’s been slower. I’ve got 1.8 to go. It’s worked really well for me, I exercise but no more than previously. I had one 3 week period where I stalled (only 300g in total over 3 weeks) but then the scales showed a loss again.

EssentialHummus · 25/04/2019 08:00

no we're losing at almost exactly the same rate. How tall are you? (And apologies if we've discussed this before!)

I'm signing in for a FD here. Hoping to have just one ready meal bulked up with veg at lunchtime. And I hope the weather brightens up a bit so DD and I aren't stuck at home!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 25/04/2019 08:40

well done moon Smile

MazDazzle · 25/04/2019 09:19

You’ll have that shifted in no time moongirl. Welcome back Parsley. I fell off the wagon spectacularly and have only been back a couple of weeks. The difference in my body shape is noticeable already and my clothes fit better.

I’m fasting today too Hummus. Anyone else? This will be my last fast before I head off for the weekend with my DH tomorrow.

Working tonight, so I’ll have my FD meal before I go. Planning on a prawn curry.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/04/2019 10:26

Good luck, Thursday fasters!

OP posts:
nolongersurprised · 25/04/2019 11:14

hummus I’m 170cm. So I’m back in healthy range but at 65.8 I can still feel some excess (for me). 64kg was always my comfortable, not trying too hard weight. I was (eventually) below 62kg after DC4 but it was too much effort to maintain.

EssentialHummus · 25/04/2019 11:40

That’s interesting no. I’m 178cm (so not too much taller) and see 70kg as my goal weight (at least initially). I was comfortably 65ish during my early 20s, but I don’t think that’s realistic (or necessary) at this stage, for me. Always interesting to hear what others feel good at.

DrWhy · 25/04/2019 12:05

nolonger that’s fantastic - well done! If I could loose at that rate I’d be close to goal by the time I go back to work. That would be amazing!
essential I’m a bit shorter at 172ish cm and my goals are correspondingly slightly lower but I’m effectively setting my targets the way you have. I’d be very happy at 64kg now. I was just over 60kg in my early 20s when I was much fitter (and slimmer) than I appreciated and have been as low as 59 but 59kg made me look ill and I think low 60s is just unrealistic and unnecessarily hard work these days! If I get easily to 64kg I might revise my goal but I don’t think that’s too likely!
First exercise class post DD today, the sun came out, everyone was very friendly and it was generally fab. Won’t be able to move tomorrow though!

Moongirl10 · 25/04/2019 13:44

Good luck today fasters. It really is amazing the feeling you get the morning after a fast, I feel so motivated. I wonder if anyone can tell me if there’s a benefit to doing a b2b?

Parsley65 · 25/04/2019 15:37

Thank all for the welcome back.

Feel like a bit of fraud, but I have to report that my first fast day on Tuesday was easy! Not sure if it was all the chocolate from the night before Blush or just that my body remembers previous fasts and adjusted itself. Either way I'm prepared for it being a bit more of an effort tomorrow, so have plans to keep busy.
Well done to you all - sounds like you're flying along...

EssentialHummus · 25/04/2019 15:40

That’s great parsley - long may it continue!

Moon - I do them to get the fasting out the way for the week, on Mon and Tues, and also find a have slightly higher losses with b2bs.

alltalknobaby · 25/04/2019 15:46

Checking back in after a few months away. I had an op early Feb which hit me for 6 and took me a while to recover from. Then shingles. Now I'm back and on second FD of the week, aiming for sub-800 to ease myself in gently.

I have read bits of bobs of this thread - Blossom I do hope you are recovering okay, poor you Thanks

As everyone is discussing stats, I'm 5'8" (173cm) and 12st 1 (76.5kg). I'd like to lose about half a stone (3kg) to get back to pre-pregnancy weight (DD is now a toddler Blush) and then another half stone - back to my happy weight - and see how I feel then.

I'm also about to turn 40, to hark back to earlier conversation Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 25/04/2019 17:22

Welcome back, alltalk
Good to hear that you are fit again after going through all that

800 FDs are fine, to ease your way in.
You can keep that system later too, if you are losing welll enough

moon Do whichever fasting system suits you, single FDs or b2b,
or mix the weeks up to suit your schedule

FD2 can be tougher for some folk, parsley
maybe because you have started losing and FD2 is further loss, so you body has to adapt
However, if you've done this WOE before, then you body should re-adapt more quickly

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 25/04/2019 18:44

It's interesting hearing everyone's goal weights - I'm 5 foot 6 and currently 74kg. Goal was 70kg but just before Christmas o got to 72kg (three weeks of work where I literally only had time to heat ready meals for tea! I almost lost my MIND. Not recommended Grin) and I was super slinky! I'm pretty happy with where I am now and I know if I do 2 FD a week and 3 TDEEs I'll lose a bit every week but I'm no longer fixated on the magical 70...

Laniakea · 25/04/2019 18:50

Moon I like to do a b2b during the week & another FD on one weekend day. I did Tuesday & Wednesday this week and I’m planning to fast on Saturday too.

No news here, I don’t seem to have done myself too much harm over the Easter weekend Wink it’s my 20th wedding anniversary in three weeks so aiming to be super strict until then.

Earslaps · 25/04/2019 19:37

Hi all, lots of new and returning people on here the last few days. Welcome (back) and well done on those FDs.

Thursday FD here- nothing other than green tea until 7pm when I had a three egg omelette with a tiny bit of feta and some chopped sun dried tomatoes, plus a giant salad of celery, carrot and pepper. Lots of chewing for not many calories there! Finished off with s small square of dark chocolate.

Talking about goal weights (I'm in stone though). When I first did 5:2 nearly six years ago I started at 11stone 4lbs. I was just finding my size 14s a bit tight. I got down to 9st 4lb and a size 8 within about six months. I stopped 5:2 and moved onto 6:1 for a bit, then stopped IF for ages. I managed to maintain at just under 10stone and a size 10 until late last year when a stressful time saw the size 10s get a bit tight. So I restarted 5:2 in Feb at 10st 7lb. I'm now 9st 10lbs and aiming to get just under 9st 7lbs and then maintain using some form of IF and regular weighing to keep an eye on it!

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