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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:38

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Grin Welcome to 5:2 thread # 82 ! Grin
We’re a very friendly bunch, so pop in and join us
Post whenever you need advice or support, or just to tell us how you are doing

FAQs & tips in the OP

"HOW TO START" section has

  • Tips & FAQs
  • FD recipes, meal plans
  • Body Goal Visualisers
  • Calculators for TDEE, Body Fat, Frame Size, Ideal Weight Range, Daily Alcohol Units / Cals

"Scientific Evidence for Health & Fasting" is at the end of the OP and includes links to peer-reviewed science papers

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OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/12/2018 06:37

Morning all and thanks bcf for the new thread. Lying in bed with the start of totm it feels like, so don't think there's much point weighing today Hmm

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/12/2018 07:34

Okay so I'm v v v pleased that I did weigh this morning as my long awaited whoosh has happened at last, 3lbs off Grin was hoping that would bring me into healthy bmi but just still outside at 25.4 ... nearly there!

Finally the scales have caught up SmileSmileSmile

BigChocFrenzy · 08/12/2018 09:41

Well done on your SV, 43
A motivating whoosh

I'm fasting today.
Anyone else ?

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 08/12/2018 10:36

BCF thanks for the new thread. Can’t believe how quickly we go through them now. Harriet- Congratulations that’s a huge SV, hope you enjoyed your meal.

43 - Your FD sounds like it went very well.

Emcla - Hope your FD went well.

Borris - Yes agree that your FD sounds like it went well.

Faron - Well done on your FD and resisting the work chocs.

Me too I love full fat Greek yoghurt, especially Asda’s as it’s so thick and creamy but too moreish. 43 I have to weigh it out too as I buy the kg tubs and would happily work my way through it in one sitting.

Cheddar - Well done on your FD, I would class a mini between 800-1000 but usually the higher end as I class a FD between 500-800 ITSWIM.

Borris - Well done on your FD, especially as you normally do B2B it’s amazing how much further a extra 150 cals goes.

43 - Huge Congratulations on your whoosh. I am crossing my fingers that next weigh day you hit your milestone, so very close for you now.

BCF are you fasting or having a mini today? I’m having a mini, surprisingly weight wise I technically don’t need too but very large meal Thursday and some crap snuck in yesterday after a very small disappointing ready meal. I’ve managed to maintain my weight surprisingly but for me it becomes a slippery slope of “look at all this crap I’ve eaten and maintained” than bam 5lbs on 😂 so back into good habits today.

Good luck to anyone else fasting and hope you have a great weekend.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/12/2018 10:48

duck I maintain on 800 FDs
Good luck on your mini

I've pump class this afternoon
And it's a lovely sunny day on the Rhine, so I'll go out for a jog soon
Are you doing anything today ?

OP posts:
emcla · 08/12/2018 11:28

Hi all. Good luck to all fasters today.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/12/2018 12:08

Thanks bcf and quacking I'd resigned myself to just STS on the run up to Xmas so I am chuffed Xmas Smile

You sound like you are where you need to be quacking and I get that thinking you've 'got away' with cap only for it to bite you on the bum. How long have you and bcf been maintaining? Ooh enjoy the sunshine bcf grey and miserable here!!!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/12/2018 12:09

Cap = crap (obvs)

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 08/12/2018 12:54

Place marking!

43, hurray for your whoosh! Star Glitterball Xmas Grin Finally! Well done you for gritting your teeth and sticking to it! So close to healthy weight as well! So pleased for you - and in the midst of Christmas festivities as well!

BigChocFrenzy · 08/12/2018 13:33

Hi, emcla, cheddar
Enjoy your weekend

OP posts:
emcla · 08/12/2018 15:49

Thanks bigchoc. And hope you have a great weekend too.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/12/2018 17:46

For fun, why not take the nhs quiz to review your lifestyle:

https://www.nhs.uk/oneyou/how-are-you-quiz/

don't worry, no weighing or measuring

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/12/2018 19:38

Thanks cheddar

Will have a look at that quiz bcf

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 08/12/2018 22:17

That’s a v interesting quiz, BigChoc! I got 6/10. Green for moving (although it suggested more weight lifting) and not smoking, amber for food and drink. Plus I am a bit stressed and don’t sleep well at the moment (which is new - I used to fall asleep the minute my head touched the pillow).

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 08/12/2018 22:36

Hmph. DH got 7/10 and he’s clinically depressed and does hardly any exercise. He drinks less than me, though.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/12/2018 23:33

That's good you both found it interesting, cheddar

If you can't go to a gym for weights, it's fine to do bodyweight exercises at home:
e.g. pressups, squats, lunges, tricep dips on a step / bench, plank, side plank, crunches
Shred does a fair bit too, iirc

The 2 biggies in any medical-based lifestyle quiz would be smoking & exceeding alcohol limits,
because those 2 habits dominate the statistics of every population study ever done.

OP posts:
Borris · 09/12/2018 10:09

43 - hurrah I’m so pleased your whoosh has come.

Duck - good attitude to keeping in control of food. I agree if you get lucky then you can get complacent and it’s a slippery slope. Especially this time of year with snacks everywhere!

Bcf going to do the quiz later.

Going for just sensible nfd today. Started with porridge

quackingduck222 · 09/12/2018 11:10

BCF - Me too, 800 for FDs and usually up near 1000 for a mini.
How did your pump class go?

43 - I’m starting to think your a whoosher now instead of losing it in drive and drabs your getting big losses in one go.
I’ve been maintaining a couple of days short of 7 months now.

That quiz was interesting, I need more veggies and more strength training apparently. In the new year I will try and do some more training but I’m drawing the line at more veggies 😂

Borris - Definitely is a slippery slope. Hope your NFD goes well.

Anyone fasting today?

BigChocFrenzy · 09/12/2018 15:00

Duck We had massive galeforce winds and rain after lunch, very unpleasant, so I stayed home after my jog
However, I managed morning spin today, before more gales
How about you ?

Let us know what you find with the quiz, Borris

I'm - now - that infuriating person who always gets 10/10 in that sort of thing - never smoked, have never drunk over the limits, drink mainly water, eat lots of veg, do plenty of exercise

However, some of my good habits - veg, water, sleep, junk - only happened with 5:2
I used to be a veg-dodger & junk fiend
Many folk find their longterm habits change like this, which boosts the health benefits of the fasting WOL

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 09/12/2018 15:01

Come on, duck Pile on the veg ! 🛰

OP posts:
Borris · 09/12/2018 15:51

Quiz results are in. I've got 7/10. I need to move more. I knew this. Before separation I'd be out for a run with the dog 3x a week. XH has the dog and I got the cat... Who isn't a fan of running 😂. I can't remember my last run, so that's definitely something I could restart.

However since 5:2 (and poss separation - is there a link?) my alcohol consumption has plummeted! It just doesn't seem worth opening a bottle for 1. And I don't like to drink when dd is with me. My FD are in the days that she's not with me. If she's with her dad for a weekend then I usually arrange to meet up with someone which means I'm driving so not drinking. Plus I'd rather pudding than wine calorie wise! I think I've done a dry November without even realising

BigChocFrenzy · 09/12/2018 16:16

That's good borris
also, you've dropped about 12 useless stone, but sadly a dog too.
maybe you can have a run or Shred, on the days your ex has DD, before you go out with your mates

OP posts:
Borris · 09/12/2018 17:46

There is definitely time to exercise bcf. Just struggling with inclination 😹.
Happily I have the ddog for a week when he is going away so lots of runs and walks planned for then Smile

Borris · 09/12/2018 17:46

Gosh if I count the xh into my stone loss I have had an amazing 2018 Grin

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