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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns

985 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2018 23:37

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
snailhunter · 21/01/2019 07:19

Amazing cheee, well done! FD for me today. Feeling pretty tired after 90-min run yesterday so shall see how I go!

OohMrDarcy · 21/01/2019 07:35

Amazing cheese, congratulations!!

I've weighed again as know I've been good all weekend and I've lost another 1lb, so that take a me to 11lb and another BMI bracket. Unfortunately still a high one but I'm working my way down slowly but surely!

I'm fasting today too small. Rest up after that run, hope you enjoyed it!

mickeymacca · 21/01/2019 07:38

Wow cheee that’s amazing well done! I’m showing a pound on which is a bit baffling and I’m disapponted but I’m feeling so much better in my clothes that I’m going to try not to dwell on it and just keep going. Also FD today hope yours goes well snail

mickeymacca · 21/01/2019 07:39

Well done mrdarcy 👍

RosaPalma · 21/01/2019 08:06

Welcome to all the new/returning fasters. Congrats Cheese and Mr Darcy.

I had my weigh-in this morning and am thrilled to have lost 1.1kg. I am fasting today and have a very busy morning so will be back later to update and catch up on posts. Good luck to all.

flatpackbox · 21/01/2019 08:22

I am starting today. I am going to try alternate day fasting.

I will read my book pre lunch but have had a couple of spoonfuls of natural yoghurt with blueberries for breakfast. Probably new Covent Garden tomato soup for lunch and chicken and steamed veg for dinner.

I will try to increase steps but am not up to much else right now (pending surgery) but I really must lose weight.

Have had all the MM books for years, read them before, never stuck to it but now I must.

quackingduck222 · 21/01/2019 08:26

Welcome back Slinky.

Bug - Good luck for your FD today.

MrDarcy - Hope you enjoyed your self care. I think it’s very important.

Cheese- Well done for not giving in to the hotdogs and burgers. Looking forward to seeing your weigh in results.

Tip - Definitely, just being on the thread makes you accountable.

Cheese - Wow what a fantastic loss again this week. 10lbs is loads. 2lbs per week is definitely doable, perhaps not every week but averaged out that seems a very doable target.
Hope you’ve got some non food rewards set. I used to like using goals to get new bits of make up / nails done as a little boost.

Snail - Good luck for your FD.

MrDarcy well done on your loss and going into a new bracket on the BMI. Just remember your here and your doing it and that’s amazing.

Mickey- Do you only weigh weekly? Honestly I wouldn’t worry to much as our weight goes up and down over the course of the week. Good luck for your FD.

I’ve had a good week. I’ve had some very good NFDs under my belt and my NSV for the week was consuming no junk at all. Not quite got off my regain from last week but I’m chilled and it will come.

Good luck to everyone fasting today

Pumperthepumper · 21/01/2019 09:11

Same Mickey it’s so annoying 😡

Fast day today 👍

snailhunter · 21/01/2019 09:12

Yep, don't worry about a pound here and there, mickey - look at your graph long-term and if the overall trend is down then all is fine. Good luck Monday fasters!

OohMrDarcy · 21/01/2019 09:25

Rosa - Congrats on the SV , fab going

Mickey - don't worry about a pound - as the others say, tis the trend that matters. You're doing good.

Quacking that is a major NSV - massive well done!

Good luck for todays FD pumper - I'm with you

mickeymacca · 21/01/2019 09:43

quacking I weigh daily and did drop to 11, 7 mid week (which is 2 lbs off) but I only count it on a Monday - I know that sounds bonkers!!
thanks for your kind words mrdarcy and snail I'm going to keep at it.

hope your fast day goes ok today pumper what's your plan? I'm just drinking herbal tea and maybe a miso soup lunchtime then having a meal around 5. well done rosa that's a great loss.

quackingduck222 · 21/01/2019 09:54

Mickey- I do exactly the same. I have a daily weigh in that I record on my weight app then a weekly on a Monday.

mickeymacca · 21/01/2019 10:11

the fluctuations are annoying aren't they quacking I think thats why I like to do a mini or a FD on a Sunday so my best weight is on weigh in day but it didn't go to plan this week

Iamblossom · 21/01/2019 10:20

Morning. FD for me and usual fd menu.

I weigh on Monday morning and only count that weight. 2 pounds down today from last Monday which I am delighted with. I also weigh the morning after a FD just as I know it will be lower but don’t count that weight as I consider it an artificial low after fasting. The one that counts for me is the weekly one on the day I am my heaviest.

JcHcks · 21/01/2019 10:37

Morning everyone! FD for me today. I had SUCH a bad weekend, boyfriend bought domino's again and I ended up having chocolate and all sorts so back on it this week! Might try and have 3 fasts day to make up for it. Good luck everyone on your FD today

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 21/01/2019 11:01

Morning people!

I am having a wobble - have been well over TDEE on 4 days in the last week. PIL are staying and so we've been having nice dinners with pudding or eating out, and I've had 3 drinks a night since Friday. I've got a cold and I'm miserable at work - feeling very sorry for myself! Fast days are tomorrow (PIL leave tomorrow morning) and Thursday and I'm going to try to do some exercise this week. It just feels like the weight is never going to go, and I'm never going to manage to retrain my eating to sensible levels.

Pumperthepumper · 21/01/2019 11:26

Cheddar the thing I really like about 5:2 is the control you have over it - you can always fast the next day, you can do two days back to back, you can do a couple of minis until you get back on track. Just start again! We all have feast days, holidays, celebrations, it’s about changing your habits on the ordinary days. So if your in-laws are away now, crack back into it.

The other thing that helps me is to plan some nice things for the fast days. So choose meals you’ll enjoy eating and look forward to. And after dinner, if possible and you’ve got time, set aside an hour to read or watch tv or paint your nails or whatever you really like doing. A bit of you time. Best of luck Flowers

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 11:36

Congratulations on dropping into a lower BMI class, MrD
That's a really important milestone

Well done on your SV too, Rosa
Excellent progress

Welcome, flatpack 🙂

Walking is good exercise when you have health issues
Just do what you can; don't try too much
I hope your op is on time and goes well 💐

Ignore weekly blips, mickey, pumper
Weight can fluctuate naturally a couple of lb over the week, because:
your hormonal balance shifts slightly and you retain & release different amounts of water
undigested food etc

Look at the trend over periods of 3 weeks and it should be downwards
If not, check on NFDs if your "normal eating" needs to be reined back, to what your body needs for maintenance.

Don't worry, cheddar
It can sometimes be difficult to focus properly on the WOE when you have family staying and you have more indulgent food & drink
Tomorrow, as soon as they have gone, just get right back on track - look on it as a few days holiday, which ends
tomorrow

From tomorrow, focus on 5:2 healthy habitson NFDs, even at weekends:

NHS alcohol limits, NEVER snack / graze between meals,
sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal, lots of water & veg, cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 12:21

Well done on your SV, blossom
You must be around Happy Weight Range again now ?

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 21/01/2019 13:20

Congrats on the SV Blossom - how far from happy weight now?

JC - Leave that Dominos in the past , and maybe think of a plan if it happens again - ie - have a slice or two but with salad or something.

Cheddar - straight back on the horse as soon as the family go home, its the only way - and you WILL retrain your brain, it just might take a blip or two! I'm still learning and making better choices now than a few years ago when I started! I'm confident that I will get there eventually though and completely know and believe this WOE works for me.

BigChoc you are right of course - dropping from high risk obesity to moderate risk is a big thing and I'm really pleased with myself, whilst also acknowledging there is a way to go!

HLBug · 21/01/2019 13:25

FD going ok so far - coffee and a plain omelette with smoked salmon for lunch. Planning chicken tikka pieces with salad leaves and maybe a small bit of naan for dinner. That should bring me to 680 overall which is fine for me. I'm back in happy weight range now (8st 12.5 today so 3lbs off since last Monday - screw you TOTMSmile) so just need to keep being sensible and I'll be back to 8st 10lb soon enough.

Brilliant SVs today - blossam, cheese and others!!

snailhunter · 21/01/2019 13:44

Absolutely what pumper says, cheddar - I have had a pretty indulgent weekend with lots of family round, and lovely treats, so today I am just back fasting. Don't worry about how long weight will take to come off: it's a marathon, not a sprint, and nobody is judging you or competing with you, we're all just doing our own things here with all the different challenges we face every day! I never feel guilty if I've had an indulgent day: I enjoy it, then get back on the fasting wagon if I need to. (Oh, and don't fast if you're ill. Just have a nice healthy NFD.)

mickeymacca · 21/01/2019 14:01

So the scales might have been unkind but a little nsv... my denim shirt normally bulges if I do it up esp round my tummy but not today!! Woop woop

5:2 Thread number 82: Diet 2 days, eat "normally" on 5 days and retrain your "normal" to what your body burns
BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 14:01

Well done on your SV as well, bug
and on returning to Happy Weight Range
You manage it pretty easily now, after holidays

Exactly right, snail

We do NOT do guilt about food, or count "syns / sins"
and
everyone loses at the rate that suits their individual body and life circumstances.

The rate of loss is so individual, because it depends on:

sex, age, peri / meno status, how much you wish to lose, starting weight, how long you have been at that weight, any chronic conditions like thyroid or preT2 / insulin resistance, any prescribed meds, any disabilities restricting normal exercise / motion .....

quite apart from whether you have frenemies, or family members who keep eating junk in front of you,
or DC who you don't want to see you fasting ....

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 14:02

Well done on your shirt / waist NSV, mickey
That's lost bodyfat - lost inches are even more important than an SV

The scales will soon catch up

OP posts: