Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Iamblossom · 03/07/2018 13:10

Happy birthday bcf!!! ThanksThanksCakeCake

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/07/2018 13:13

honky my DS battered my pelvic floor and after months of physiotherapy etc I took the plunge and had the vaginal tape operation - best bloody thing i ever did! Its been around 2.5 years now and no problems at all with it (there has been some media stories about the procedure) and no 'accidents' at all in that time, I would highly recommend it!!!

plus stay strong, you are halfway through already Smile

Borris · 03/07/2018 13:22

Happy Birthday BCF

Another question from me. Does it matter what I eat on FD if it’s within the calorie budget?

I’ve just had an ice lolly at lunch (so not a snack). It’s 100 calories so ditching the planned yoghurt at tea will even it out. Is this ok?

badger82 · 03/07/2018 13:48

Hang in there plus!! Marmite and herbal tea....

Weirdly my pelvic floor seems to have improved after the birth of my second child. It was a bit of a mess after my first but having another seems to have done the trick....odd.

So feeling GREAT on day 2 of my first B2B, am energetic, not really hungry, feeling positive and quite relaxed. Unexpected!! Does anyone else feel fantastic on this method??

plus3 · 03/07/2018 14:49

I’m trying ... Grin have cheered up slightly. Took myself out to run some errands & now watching Wimbledon with a lovely drink of water. Yum. It really is delicious.

plus3 · 03/07/2018 14:51

Well done on the B2B badger maybe the heat is working to your advantage?

noideawhattocallmyself · 03/07/2018 16:02

Flowers Wine happy birthday BCF Wine Flowers Have a fantastic day

Hang in there plus - you can do this! (waves pompoms)

Keep going Tuesday fasters you're so nearly there :)

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2018 16:09

Thanks for good wishes, everyone.
Off to the gym now. Phew, dripping hot in the shade.

Yes, type of calories on FD matters, Borris
On FDs, avoid sugary junk and of course alcohol - both will hinder fat burning
The limited calories need to be used to provide nutrients

You could freeze some diluted fruit juice in a lolly shape - avoid pure juice as this can spike insulin and hence hunger; also the higher sugar may hinder fat-burning.
It is much more filling to eat your calories, rather then drink them

Try fizzy water with lots of ice & a couple of fruit slices, in a long pretty glass, with straw

OP posts:
Borris · 03/07/2018 16:55

It was a moment of weakness. I’ll make sure I at least stay under the 650 mark today and then hopefully it’ll still count as a b2b

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 03/07/2018 19:00

DH inspired me yesterday. Today I managed a spontaneous FD. Kitchen closed on 530 calories.

Now that I have him properly on board with less sweet stuff I hope that his support and the competition will help spur me on.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2018 19:10

Always helps if your OH is on board, underpants
and well done on a spontaneous FD

Borris, anyone else wanting a cold treat:
If you buy a bag of frozen berries, take out a handful and eat when half-thawed
Or buy fresh, wash & put some in ice trays, 1-3 per little compartment. Freeze, but you can eat some when still half-frozen.

OP posts:
badger82 · 03/07/2018 19:21

Totally smashed the B2B, very proud of myself and currently eating a delicious dinner full of nutrition - why can't every day be this successful!!

So do I weigh in tomorrow for extra motivation? After a B2B surely it's the best result possible?

HLBug · 03/07/2018 19:27

Happy Birthday BCF! I hope you've had a lovely relaxing day Thanks

NoUnderpants thanks for the clenching tricks. Unfortunately I think I may be beyond that stage Sad 43 deepening on how successful the nappy pants are at my next gym session I may have to pick your brain a bit more about the tape op.

FD closing for me at c.430 calories. It's been an easy one today, phew. May go with a B2B tomorrow but not sure yet. Congratulations to everyone else who has successfully fasted today.

plus3 · 03/07/2018 19:34

Well done everyone - have only eaten 350 today, but won’t eat anything now so got there in the end.

Iamblossom · 03/07/2018 19:45

Yes badger weigh in!!

badger82 · 03/07/2018 20:18

Aaahhh excited for the morning!

openupmyeagereyes · 03/07/2018 20:25

Well done Tuesday fasters, especially those doing a B2B.

My 2nd FD will be tomorrow as I’m out for dinner on Thursday night. Dinner tomorrow will be leftover veggie bolognaise which I’ll have with courgetti.

I hope you had a lovely day BCF

DaisyandTim · 03/07/2018 21:01

Happy birthday BCF hope you’ve had a lovely day.

Well done Bug, Plus, Badger and Nounderpants on your FD’s, sorry if I’ve missed anyone.

I’m on day 1 of a B2B, fighting food cravings and have done since the weekend - think my heads gone on holiday already! Kitchen closed now and off to bed shortly!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/07/2018 21:43

Ask me anything bug

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2018 21:46

Well done on nailing your b2b, badger

Weigh-in tomorrow may be motivating - but some people see the most loss the NFD after an FD ! - so don't worry if it's not quite whatbyou hoped, just take it as a win if it is good.

Also, try to monitor weight under identical conditions, so if next week you do non-cpnsecutive FDs, don't worry if that weigh-in isn't as good.

Basically, the trend over 2-3 weeks smooths out blips, so that is what matters

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2018 21:53

Good luck with the scalels tomorrow, badger
and on your FD, openup

Well done on a good FD, bug
If you go for a b2b, you can have 800-900, so a good oppportunit for an easy win there

Great clenching tips, underpants
We should all try to remember to clench daily

Close the kitchen, daisy and have an early night

I had an enjoyable birthday, thanks everyone
but boy, I wish it would get down below 30C for more than a couple of hours after dawn
The Killer Abs nearly boiled us all and I ended my free weights after 20 mins because I was shattered

OP posts:
Elsasalterego · 03/07/2018 22:18

Hi all, just checking in and catching up on be tread. DH scuppered my fasting plans post op again... says to eat as if sensible NFDs. I'm a bit fed up though so I have had a couple of sugary treats and am hating myself for them a bit. I also haven't been very good at sitting still and checked my watch this evening- I have apparently done nearly 10K steps a day for the last two days and that's me being sedentary! I'm quite high energy and move around a lot as a general rule. I am pretty keen to get away from sugary rubbish though so I am going to do a mini tomorrow- I don't eat breakfast and I reckon a small healthy lunch will give me a chance to get the day in under 1000 cals. I need to as I feel like I am not in control at the moment and I don't like not being in control!

Elsasalterego · 03/07/2018 22:20

Happy birthday BCF!! 🍰🎂🎈🎁

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2018 23:21

Thanks, Elsa

I suggest 2 weeks without FDs, but with super-charged healthy habits

  • easier to cut out crap than to ration it So:
  • No snacking between meals, ever
  • No sugary treats, also no crisps or deep-fried food or takeaways
  • No alcohol
  • No fizzy drinks
  • Aim for 2l water daily
  • Add an extra portion veg to lunch & supper
  • Early nights, so plenty of sleep daily.
OP posts:
badger82 · 04/07/2018 05:56

65.5 StarStar

Swipe left for the next trending thread