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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
PopGoesTheWeaz · 07/08/2018 11:59

dove Flowers for you and your DM. Agree that sticking to healthy NFD may be best for stressful times. You don't want to set yourself up to fail, so best to postpone until you are ready.

FD here and I can tell already it's going to be one of the hard ones. So hot, and still not getting enough sleep post hols. Boo. At least no trouble filling up on water. Have booked meetings through lunch so that should keep me busy at least.

Stircrazyschoolmum · 07/08/2018 12:35

pop Im so with you.. scorchio today! I think it cools down tomorrow though. How are you coping BCF?

jolly you are so right about mushrooms.. I like to bake the big flat ones. Today is NFD so I might have a couple with a little blue cheese on top for lunch. Nom nom!

Iam you are smashing it! I agree the rainbow fries sound very tasty, I might have to get some!

Random question / wondering.. Do other folk have a certain piece of clothing they would like to fit into or a particular occasion they use as motivation? I have this bizarre fantasy about wearing hot pants again (prob not the most appropriate attire for a 40 something mum in London but heyho - it’s the idea I could rather than the reality of it happening!)

Anyone else?

MrJollyLivesNextDoor · 07/08/2018 13:39

Stircrazy yes yes! I have a pair of size 10 trousers from Top Shop that used to hang off me in the (ahem) mid 90s
They won't be fashionable to wear now obviously but I have held onto them this long as a reminder of my previous physique ...and I am going to fit into them again goddamit Smile

Stircrazyschoolmum · 07/08/2018 13:47

Hee Hee! You are spot on Jolly!

I've determinedly kept all sorts of crap vintage belongings from my pre-chocolate and wine gluttony pre-baby years. Most of it I wouldn't be seen dead leaving the house in... I just want it to bloody fit!!

BigChocFrenzy · 07/08/2018 18:35

Stircrazy Briefly nudged 40C today, but should be sub-30 from Friday onwards.
Go for those hot pants; even if it's only to admire them in the mirror .... and anything goes on the beach

and go for the trous, MrJolly
Thinking about those fitting again may help ward off any attacks by those cream caked lurking in your works frig.

All scorchees: Drink lots of water
If it's an FD, have a teasp Marmite to replenish lost salt & minerals you've probably sweated out.

< admires blue's elegant twirl > That's a torso NSV and a legs NSV; excellent work.

OP posts:
Crashbumpthud · 07/08/2018 21:05

Welcome jolly

Mini fast day today - 900 cals. Aiming for a FD (600 cal) tomorrow and another mini on Thursday. Hoping for a SV after that!

Crashbumpthud · 07/08/2018 21:11

Also stir I have a pair of size 8 top shop high waisted shorts. They are so small I wonder how I ever fitted into them..... right now though being a solid 10-12 would suit me (as opposed to a 12-14!)

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/08/2018 08:05

morning everyone, FD today, then off to London for 5 days....
I don't normally eat breakfasts since starting 5:2 but we have it all paid for at the hotel so it seems daft not to have breakfast and then skip lunch, but what should I eat that won't start my appetite off? I don't eat red meat, so i'm thinking stay away from the lovely carby baked goods and go for yogurt and fruit followed by eggs and toms and mushrooms?

Good luck weds fasters, I think mine will be a real struggle today as my brain is already thinking i'm on holiday mode!! Grin

Homemadehopeful · 08/08/2018 08:24

Hello everyone! Can I sneak back in after being AWOL please Blush
I started back with a FD yesterday which is always easier when I am not at work. Menu was salad leaves, cucumber, tomato, a boiled egg and 50g cottage cheese for a late lunch and dinner was 2 quorn sausages, a baked stuffed mushroom, plus lots of tenderstem broccoli and green beans. All weighed and coming to 415 calories but then I also had 1 piece of DD tortellini. I also went to the gym, did a short very low weights session for my arms and shoulder as am now trying to build my shoulder back up after about a year of rotator cuff injury / frozen shoulder followed by a short swim (16 or 18 lengths)

Target weight is still 9st 7lbs and yesterday morning I was just under 10st 10 (think it was 10st 9.2 to be precise but will need to check) Haven't decided on which day of the week I will officially record my weight yet.

I have only had a quick scan through the last page of the thread but am very pleased to see lots of familiar names still here Grin

Hockneypool · 08/08/2018 08:44

Best wishes Flowers Dove hope all goes well for your DM

Well done blue on your results, waist and legs!

Fd yesterday went well - weight STS but still feeling thin and not surprised after last weeks loss. The joys of being old, and short! Need to keep the exercise going too.

Good luck Wednesday fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/08/2018 12:02

Welcome back, homemade You started with a good FD yesterday
Also an excellent plan to boost strength exercises

OP posts:
PopGoesTheWeaz · 08/08/2018 13:34

Having a bit of a weird morning. Yesterday's FD went okay in the end, and despite having a handful of the kids' chocolate (stupid impulse) kitchen still closed at under 500.

Today is day 2 of B2B. I normally weigh in after second fast but when I was changing this morning my waste didn't look like mine. It was going in too much. Huh?? What's that about?? So I nipped to the bathroom to weigh myself and I was down almost 2 kilos from my post holiday wet-hair weigh in Monday. Checked twice more and it wavered a little bit, but it's definitely down btw 1.5-2 kilos from Monday and .5 -1 kilo from pre holiday weight.

It also would mean I'm now in the "normal" BMI range. Huh. Haven't been there for 10,15 years.

So I've just been sitting here in disbelief. I did not expect to get here for a few weeks and realise there are all these psychological impacts of what it means that I just was not ready for.

Will do my proper weigh in and measurements tomorrow and hopefully it wasn't just the scales playing tricks on me. And hopefully then I can treat it as a victory rather than a weird episode of "you've been caught on candid camera" which is how it feels now. :D

BigChocFrenzy · 08/08/2018 20:01

This could well be a genuine SV & milestone, pop < fingers crossed hard for you ! >
The FD probably got rid of some undigested food and retained water from the holiday, which you saw on the 1st weigh-in after hols
plus maybe some additional fat burned this week.

So, good luck for your regular weigh-in tomorrow (after loo but before eating or drinking anything) - do tell us how it goes
and check your waist measurement too, at the narrowest point, usually 2" above the navel

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 09/08/2018 07:18

Wow that's awesome pop fingers also crossed for your official weigh in :-)

Second Fd yesterday, 2lbs off this morning, I'm 1lb away from 2 stone lost Grin I just need to keep a level head for the next 5 days and not go mad in London

Welcome back home

Happy Thurs everyone Smile

MrJollyLivesNextDoor · 09/08/2018 07:51

Pop and Forty brilliant news both! Well done

2nd FD for me today...I feel as though I could eat my body weight in chocolate Confused
3.5lb loss so far so that's my motivation not to

I have a boozy few days at Alton Towers weekend after next..getting through that without piling on half a stone should be interesting..although the weekend after that I am walking up Snowdon so hopefully they will balance each other out lol

BigChocFrenzy · 09/08/2018 07:54

Well done on your SV , 43
Good luck for your 2 stone major milestone
Focus on that, especially in London & at the weekend and you'll soon nail it - and then you'll keep it firmly nailed down.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 09/08/2018 07:58

Well done on your SV, MrJ
Do try to keep the NHS alcohol limits, even on social occasions, as it's too easy to regain with boozy sessions. wasting all your hard work

It's so much quicker & easier to gain weight through over-nidulgence than to lose it via hard exercise

Alcohol stops fat-burning dead until the liver has processed all the toxic byproducts
The excess calories from alcohol - and sugary junk - are stored preferentially around ypour middle

OP posts:
cheddarmonster · 09/08/2018 08:55

Hi all, I'm back after my holiday and checking in for my first FD (my Tuesday one was abandoned after a journey from hell to get home!)
Anyway, have put on a little over the holidays but feeling motivated to get back into the swing of things. Will only have one FD this week and then back to normal next week.

Seems like there have been some great achievements over the last few weeks :D

Good luck all other Thursday fasters.

Stircrazyschoolmum · 09/08/2018 10:10

Welcome back cheddar did you have a lovely time? (Aside from the home journey!)

BCF hope it’s cooling down for you.. rain here today.. lovely!

43 enjoy London, are you doing anything special? I don’t think you can go wrong with toms eggs and mushrooms as long as it’s not steeped in oil? If you are active during the day you will be burning more as well. Well done on your SV!

Dove how is your DM (and you!) doing?

jolly I’m headed to Snowdonia on 18th Aug for a fortnights walking with the family, we’ll have to swap tips! I’m a sucker for cream teas!

pop keeping fingers and toes crossed that’s a proper SV.. you’ve earned it.

crash you sound around the same size as me. I agree, to be a comfortable 10 rather than a tight completely in denial 12 would be wonderful. But those shorts won’t beat me!

FD today, hoping for a 64.something rather than a 65.something tomorrow. Totm is closing in and weekends are my downfall so I’m going to MFP everything to stay on track. Hello to everyone else fasting today! x

quackingduck222 · 09/08/2018 10:17

StirCrazy - I used to get motivation from occasions. Had a couple of nice events during weight loss stage and used to set targets for myself. Never actually hit the targets mind you but close by a couple of lbs. I found it great motivation.

Blimey BCF 40c, it’s cooled right down here luckily.

43 - I would say what you’ve suggested sounds a great breakfast. Eggs mushrooms and tomatoes are very low in calories and hopefully out will find the eggs very filling.

Homemade - great to see you again.

Pop - well done on your SV. And massive congratulations on your BMI victory that’s fantastic. I was just about to say to do your measurements but I see you’ve got that planned.

43 - well done on your loss and eek just a lb away from 2 stone is bloody fantastic. I hope you’ve got a reward lined up for that milestone.

Mr Jolly congratulations on your losses. You will have a blast at Alton Towers, we went recently and it was great managed to rack up a lot of steps we did about 8 Miles over one day.

Cheddar - good to see you back. Hope you had a great holiday. Remember some of that weight will be undigested food that will naturally drop off over the next few days.

I’ve been really enjoying my food over the last week and the scales have been creeping up a bit but had a good loss this morning for absolutely no reason so that’s put my head in gear for a FD today.

Some fantastic scale victories this week.

Good luck to everyone fasting / B2Bers for today.

Stircrazyschoolmum · 09/08/2018 10:29

It’s good to hear you are enjoying your food quacking. I think for this way of eating to be sustainable that’s really important. I had some yummy homemade fajitas yesterday, but reduced my portion size upped the salad and cut the cheese and sour cream. I still came in within my NFD limit.

I also read somewhere that stress makes our bodies hold onto cortisol which stores fat on the tummy. Definitely not what we want!

Off for a very wet dog walk now! x

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 09/08/2018 10:45

Thanks everyone... after I hit the 2 stone mark I have another stone to lose, so no reward planned in yet...

Good luck on getting 64 something stir

Welcome back cheddar you'll soon have that holiday gain off.

Well done mrjolly Smile

Excellent sv quacking even better that you have managed that while enjoying your food

Enjoy the dog walk stir

PopGoesTheWeaz · 09/08/2018 10:47

So had my proper weigh in today after my B2b and turns out it the scales weren't lying, and then some. So I can now officially celebrate being 10 stone and healthy BMI. Glitterball I carry my weight around my middle though so still a ways to go before I'm actually not overweight though, but still, it's a nice milestone and I'm going to enjoy it today.

Had loads of positive remarks from family while on holiday which was really nice and because I didn't have any full length mirrors it was odd coming back and expecting to see the pre-april me in the mirror and instead seeing only 90% of her :)

Well done 43. 2 stone off is my next mini goal. Have a great time in London. If you do a lot of walking that may counter some indulgences.

And well done Jolly. I do find tracking my loss really helps me keep motivated. Booze is my big downfall (and cheese. mmm cheese). I have to say I feel loads better having broken the habit of the routine glass or two every night but nights out were different. But now my strategy is just to cut back by a third and that curbs it some. Realising I don't need to keep pace with DH and friends is good (though I think DH maybe resents it sometimes), and that I don't make so many bad decisions (chip butties at midnight for example) helps as well.

MrJollyLivesNextDoor · 09/08/2018 10:50

Ooh Stircrazy we'll be there at the same time...meet you for a drink at the summit! Grin

We are only there 24th to 27th...planning to walk up Snowdon on the Sunday. I would love a 2 week walking holiday around there, how fab

Good luck today cheddar and all other FDayers

MrJollyLivesNextDoor · 09/08/2018 10:52

Pop that's brilliant, well done Grin