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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 09/08/2018 11:40

That's fab pop Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 09/08/2018 23:19

pop Congratulations on your SV and healthy BMI milestone
Your DH is v silly & selfish if he resents you not keeping up with his drinking, glass for glass.
Ignore him, think of your healthier body & liver, also all the compliments you had during your holiday

Welcome back, cheddar

OP posts:
GrannyPenny · 10/08/2018 00:36

Pop - adding my congratulations to reaching healthy BMI milestone!

plus3 · 10/08/2018 08:11

Well done everyone - lovely catching up on your SV this week!
Hope your mum’s op went well Dove thinking of you Flowers

Reached my stone off today -11st 10 !!! Back to BMI 24.9. Feel very happy not to be officially overweight.

Next goal 10st 7lb by Christmas. Start some sort of exercise...

BigChocFrenzy · 10/08/2018 08:55

Well done on your SV and healthy BMI milestone, plus
You're on your way to your next goal.

Exercise is a good idea
Shred is only about 20 mins, say 2-3 times per week, excellent HIIT to fit with IF / 5:2

You could try c25k
or just a gentle slow jog some mornings - there was a thread about the Japanese "Flo-flo," where you jog at hardly more than walking pace, nice & easy, but it still has beneficial effects for health & fitness.

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 10/08/2018 09:22

StirCrazy- that’s really good you did a switch about with your food upping the salad and reducing the sour cream. And you still enjoyed it honestly it probably wasn’t very different. Little switches like that over the course of the week really can help.

43 - I still think you should have some type of reward, 2 stone is bloody fantastic.

Pop - massive congratulations on your SV.
And that’s really great you’ve had lots of positive encouragement from your friends and family.

Plus3 - congratulations to you on your stone. And also for your BMI that’s absolutely fantastic.
There is so much exercise on YouTube you don’t even need to leave your house if you don’t want. And whatever you would like to do it’s probably on there lots of full classes.

FD completed yesterday I forgot how filling omlette was I was absolutely stuffed.

DH found a huge box of my old clothes whilst sorting out the garage, my clothes I was too big to fit into when we moved in so I sorted it all out. Nothing fitted all too big apart from my prom dress from when I was 15/16 and my wedding tiara Grin
The crazy thing was the dress was marked a 12. Stupid vanity sizing nowadays.

Hockneypool · 10/08/2018 09:29

Well done Pop, 43 and Plus - what fabulous results and very inspiring, about just sticking with it.

Friday Fd here. I thought it would set the weekend up well so I don’t ruin things. Off to the dentist for a check up first and then a busy work day to keep me out of trouble and the kitchen!

MrJollyLivesNextDoor · 10/08/2018 09:44

plus3 Well done on your stone off and BMI result Smile

Hockney good luck for today's FD, also to anyone else partaking

Mine didn't go brilliantly yesterday..caved a bit in the evening and came in at around 900. Oh well, will be good today plus will do 30miles on bike and a bit of treadmill

Walking up Pen y Fan tomorrow = good

OH has promised DS a trip to KFC on the way home = not so good Confused

Boysmomma · 10/08/2018 09:47

Wow! Well done pop, plus and 43 that's amazing!

quacking that's brilliant, and gave me a good laugh Grin

dove I hope everything is ok x

FD here today and I'm gulping the water like it's going out of fashion, my "pudding" last night was a small bowl of crunchy nut corn flakes, I had to hide the box on myself after. Fierce bad cravings now

dovegrey18 · 10/08/2018 09:59

Thanks all. Op went well as it could've. Dm really suffered with a lot of pain but thankfully they've got it under control now

Stircrazyschoolmum · 10/08/2018 12:15

dove glad to hear the op went ok, take it easy this weekend and care for the career. xx

pop 43 and plus you are smashing it! Well done to you all!

43 I hope you enjoyed your hotel breakfast, apologies for London’s wet weather but at least it’s cooler.

Jolly Pen yFan is a great walk, I did it a couple of years ago, lovely views. My FD went a bit skew whiff at the end too as I was unable to resist prawn crackers with my healthy squid stir fry.. oops!

quacking It must have felt really good finding those clothes, I agree the sizing is completely messed up these days - I a sucker for the vanity thing but it back fires as weight creeps up then bites you. Grrr!

boys and hockney good luck for today’s FD. I’m going to try a mini as the kitchen closed around 800 yesterday. Good news this morning though.. weighed in at 64.7... got my 64! Even better, wore my jeans for the first time in ages and whilst not loose exactly they at least don’t feel spray painted on!

Next milestone is 63.. I’d like to crack the 10 stone mark before hols on 18th but that might be ambitious.. at least the numbers are moving in the right direction still.. whew!

MrJollyLivesNextDoor · 10/08/2018 12:51

Stircrazy well done on the SV!

I've done pen y fan a few times but never in the rain before...7yo DS doesn't know it's going to be a rainy walk so will probably moan a bit when he finds out lol Grin

dove wishing your DM a speedy recovery Thanks

BigChocFrenzy · 10/08/2018 19:08

Best wishes to your mum for a speedy recovery from the op, dove
Tough for both of you, so do remember to take care of yourself too.

That's amazing you can now fit into your old prom dress, duck
You can get rid of the big clothes forever - if you stay focused as you are, then you are never going to be that size again
Have you bought lots of new clothes, now you are stable at goal weight ?

I hope the rainy walk was enjoyed by all, MrJ
It's still bone dry here - crops are likely to be hit - but since yesterday the temperature has been down to 25C,
which seems freezing after several weeks of 35-39C !

OP posts:
SaoirseTheSeahorse · 11/08/2018 08:35

Hello!

May I please join you?

I am bfing, but not exclusively anymore, as ds is now 6 and a half months and eating some solid food. I guess I just start ‘FD’s at 1000 calories and see how it goes? Or should I start somewhere in the middle, like 750? Excuse the newbie questions!

quackingduck222 · 11/08/2018 10:20

Hockey- I hope you had a great FD yesterday.

MrJolly - Hope you enjoy your trek today. Oh and your kfc yum.

Boys - Hope your FD went well, I can’t be trusted with cornflakes.

Dove - Pleased to hear your mums op went well.

StirCrazy- Yes it was a nice feeling, I had quite a few pairs of jeans in amongst that lot still with tags on at the hoping to fit into them. Really did put it into perspective.

Good luck with your next milestone it’s always good to have targets.

Hi seahorse - welcome, I think we have a few BF mums on here that do 1000 Calorie FDs. Hopefully BCF can advise you there.

BCF - Those clothes have been removed from the house. I’ve been trying to buy new things but I’m going to be honest shopping is now a royal PITA. Bottom half is fine can walk into any shop and I’m the same in every shop. Tops on the other hand are a nightmare as most high street tops don’t go down to my size. If the item is a looser fit I need to take the next size down again and it’s impossible. I’ve just ordered a few bits yesterday offline and will see how that goes. Failing that I’m going to have to learn to alter clothes myself it’s just finding time.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/08/2018 11:07

Welcome, seahorse Smile
Post whenever you have questions, need support, or just to share how you are doing.

I suggest you start at 1000 cal FDs and after a couple of weeks, review progress
After that, you could optionally decide to gradually come down to 700 FDs, e.g. a couple of weeks at 900, then at 800.

For a good rate of loss, keep 5:2 healthy habits on NFDs, even at weekends:

.NHS alcohol limits
.no snacking / grazing
.sensible about treats
.lots of water & veg
c.ut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/08/2018 11:08

duck Fashionable shops which cater to late teens / early 20s usually have some very skinny sizes

OP posts:
dovegrey18 · 11/08/2018 11:27

Morning all,

Just wanted to say I finally got my diagnosis - fibromyalgia and joint hypermobility. Hmmm. It's been a long 7 years (symptoms were always put down to major surgery I had for pancreatic cancer but now they admitted that there must be something else going on). Doesn't really make a difference as it's just a label to explain the symptoms but that in itself is a relief.

Hoping to jump back on with first FD on Monday.

BCF is it safe to fast whilst TTC? One could just stop as soon as they got their BFP?

HLBug · 11/08/2018 12:47

duck I feel your pain but can never mention it IRL as people think I'm bragging. Ordered a size 6 and 8 dress from river island this week thinking (as BCF has suggested) that they cater for youngsters so I should be ok - I tried the 6 first and it was huge Sad

H&M had a few things in a size 4 this week but I didn't try anything on.

White Stuff size 6 seems ok but their style is not to everyone's taste. It's good for work clothes for me though. M&S size 6 also ok. Boden size 6 or kids 15-16. Many, many nice shops now I don't even bother going into though Angry

dove glad you finally got a diagnosis and I think it's lovely that you're TTC - hope it all goes well for you.

Welcome seahorse you're in good company here - many of us (me included) started on here trying to get rid of baby weight and have been successful and made this a new WOL.

BCF as Official Thread Monitor (shines badge proudly) this is your 970 post notification, we may need a new thread after the weekend for the Monday Fasters.

I have been eating utter shite this week as I've been off work but still having to go in for meetings / meet deadlines etc - worst annual leave ever! Weight has been maintaining though and I've had a few long fast stretches (eg skipping dinner) which has probably helped. Only one mini FD this week though. Hopefully back to normal next week.

Final note - congratulations to those this week that reached healthy BMI - it's such a massive milestone. I remember shedding a little tear when I got there myself. You guys are absolutely awesome Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 11/08/2018 13:38

dove That's reassuring for you to finally get a diagnosis - hopefully maybe some physio or other treatment to help ?

It should be fine to fast while ttc, especially as it can sometimes be a long wait - hopefully it'll be quick for you.
Losing some bodyfat and keeping the 5:2 healthy habits is probably beneficial, if anything.

The 5:2 stork has arrived for several people on these threads - not always expected ! - because fasting can help hormonal issues, e.g. PCOS, which have been hindering becoming pregnant.

Good luck on your 1st FD back - I recommend you start with 800 cal FDs, after the tough time you have had

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/08/2018 13:44

Many thanks for the reminder, bug Thanks
< admires shiny Thread Monitor badge>

If you return to the 5:2 healthy habits next week, then you can polish your halo as well

It's so encouraging for newbies, especially those with a lot to lose, when maintainers keep posting, like bug, duck, blossom, snail, TiP
These are really supportive threads

I'll scurry away now and prep Thread 80;
as promised, I'll use the motivational quote from @Iamblossom

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/08/2018 13:55

< scurries back ... >

🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺

.

🎺🎺🎺 ..... We have a NEW 5:2 / IF Thread # 80 ..... 🎺🎺🎺
.

🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺

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