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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Iamblossom · 04/07/2018 06:21

Whoop! Thanks

plus3 · 04/07/2018 07:27

Yay badger!!!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 04/07/2018 07:28

Fab badger

quackingduck222 · 04/07/2018 07:40

Hope you had a fantastic Birthday BCF Flowers

Badger well done on nailing your first day of B2B. Fantastic

NoUnderpants - go easy on yourself, it will come. Sugar is very hard to combat. Well done on your FD.

Plus - I hope your day came together for you yesterday. You here, your doing something about it and that’s fantastic in itself. Just seen your update, well done on your FD.

Daisy - also big well done to you on your B2B.

Elsa - well done on your steps for the day. That’s great, hope recovery goes well for you.

My run happened yesterday after writing it down on here, only 2.5 miles as I don’t do well in heat but plan is to do a small amount a lot more often. Plan to do the same today or a bit more as I actually enjoyed it. Did some free weights too and some bums legs and tums.

Good luck to everyone doing a FD / B2B today.

Borris · 04/07/2018 08:04

0.5kg up. 67.6Sad. Thought I’d had an ok week too

BigChocFrenzy · 04/07/2018 08:38

Well done on your SV, badger

I slowed down my jog in this heat, duck and add a good walk to cooldown & relax

Just a blip, Borris
Remember that weight naturally varies from day to day

  • undigested food, retained water due to heat, exercise, hormonal swings … -
which can easily turn a 1lb fat loss into a small scales "gain"

Look at the trend over 3 weeks, to smooth out blips
If it is downwards, even slowly, you are doing fine, losing at the rate for your body & lifestyle
If it has slowed to sts - a plateau - then post for advice

OP posts:
calzone · 04/07/2018 08:47

Fasting today to make up for a stupid day yesterday.

Why do I do it to myself? 😭

Water
Marmite
Coffee

Tomato salad for dinner
Early to bed.

plus3 · 04/07/2018 09:14

Good luck for today’s fasters - can’t decide whether to change my FD on Thursday to Friday...it is the NHS’s 70th birthday on Thursday & I am working.
There might be cake. Cake at work is great.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 04/07/2018 09:32

FD here today although all i want to do is eat bread and cake - totm is next week and i want to eat the work the week before it - hmmmppfff

borris as BCF said its just a blip, I gained 1lb last week for no apparent reason, its easy to let it knock you off course but stay strong and you'll see a loss next week I'm sure

Well done on the run quacking i take my hat off to anyone trying to exercise in this heat!!!

openupmyeagereyes · 04/07/2018 10:19

Great work Badger, well done.

Borris it’s just a blip, don’t panic!

FD here, so far so good but I’m hungrier today. Good luck everyone.

DaisyandTim · 04/07/2018 10:34

Well done badger great result!

Don’t worry Borris it’ll be gone before you know it.

PopGoesTheWeaz · 04/07/2018 11:11

Well done badger

Was a NFD last night and we were out and I had a lovely time but felt a bit dismayed when I MFP'd my drinks calories. Still only slightly over TDEE but waaaay to many of those calories were from beer. Blurgh. Oh well, that was yesterday and today is a new day, a FD. I took the long route running this morning and will be sensible at the BBQ this evening.

noideawhattocallmyself · 04/07/2018 13:05

well done badger
Borris it's a blip - put it behind you and move on :)
plus cake at work is covered in poo crumbs :) well known fact

FD here today; also TOTM so want to eat all the carbs in the universe but so far coping with coffee and a plain salad. :)

openupmyeagereyes · 04/07/2018 14:51

Arghhh, I’m trying to resist the urge for a latte. The Nespresso is calling me...

FriendlyGhost · 04/07/2018 16:41

Hope you had a lovely birthday yesterday BigChoc.
A FD here today. Pretty sure I deserve a medal. I helped dd bake chocolate chip cookies at playgroup this afternoon and then I had to sit next to a plate of freshly baked cookies with the delicious smell wafting towards me while dd played. It was awful and I almost cracked several times. I have made it home now and the offending cookies are staying in a cake tin until tomorrow.

plus3 · 04/07/2018 18:09

Blush how could I forget about poo crumbs!! Thursday FD it is ...
Friendly 🏅well done !

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 04/07/2018 18:47

successful FD here, kitchen closed at 489 cals, might have a coffee later

How's everyone else doing? Going to paint my nails and have an early night, out for a couple of drinks with a friend tomorrow, then second FD on friday

HonkyWonkWoman · 04/07/2018 18:59

Second Fd and I'm closing kitchen at 487.
I'm off to Turkey on Friday.
I'm going to enjoy the food!
Remember to avoid snacks. Drink lots of water. And if I have a treat, try to make sure it's with a meal.
I may lurk while I'm away, to keep me motivated. 👋👋👋👋

HLBug · 04/07/2018 19:18

Day 2 of B2B closing at about 850 calories. Given yesterday was only 430 calories I'm happy as that's pretty much 640 per day. I'm still at the higher end of happy weight range post holiday, so hopefully this week will see me back to 8.10 / 8.11 ish again.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 04/07/2018 19:31

Have a wonderful holiday honky

Well done bug and good luck for weigh in

BigChocFrenzy · 04/07/2018 19:38

Glug down some water, openup and clean your teeth to avoid temptation
Try to develop a taste for black unsweetened espresso, but better not in the evening - sleep is important

Stay focused, noidea and resist those totm munchies sneaking in

Good plan, honky

Impressive will-power, ghost
Remember, cookies made with toddlers definitely have poo crumbs & snot smears

Chant "poo crumbs" tomorrow, plus, if any evil person offers cake on your FD

Don't beat yourself up about yesterday, calzone Just move on
Is your problem snacking / junk ?
Sometimes the only cure for junk is just not to allow it in the house

With snacking, cold turkey is best, because if you let yourself snack at weekends, your body is still geared up to want frequent feeding the rest of the week

Maybe your meals don't have enough protein & veg ?

Well done on your b2b, bug
and on your FD 43

OP posts:
badger82 · 04/07/2018 20:18

Sick baby and allergic conjunctivitis (me) send non chocolate based help :-(

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 04/07/2018 20:23

Phew second FD done. Kitchen closed on 499 cals - I managed to eat all my calories at lunchtime because of a work event but it was actually ok. Am just not feeling too hungry in this weather at all and keeping myself going with herbal tea and cucumber infused water. Hope you all had a good one! Smile

cakegoblin · 04/07/2018 21:17

Some great acheivements on here today. Well done badger and have a great hols honky!

I have totally messed up my NFD - 2350 cals of which 705 came from double cream. Gin featured heavily. A jam tart made its way into the mix. Blush And I was doing so well!

First of 2 FDs tomorrow and I really hope this time tomorrow night I will feel like I'm back on track after my weekend away. Anyone else starting a B2B in the morning?

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 04/07/2018 21:47

Oh badger that's pants for you and baby.

Well done smiled

Ouch cake I'm sure your b2b will sort it ell out Smile