Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
HonkyWonkWoman · 01/07/2018 14:58

Just on the outskirts of Calis, Fethiye! Me, Dd and family and Ds and family, ten of us in total. We've booked a 5bed Villa with pool which is right on the beach, (so hopefully some sea breeze, for me). There are Restaurants and other facilities in the complex and lots of Restaurants in Calis.
This will be the first time that we'll all be together. The boys are 7 & 10 and the twins are 19 and another Dgd 15 and maybe it will be the last time we will be able to manage it.
I'm sooooo looking forward to it!

BigChocFrenzy · 01/07/2018 15:48

To clarify re exercise cals:

  • FDs - no extra allowance
  • NFDs - handled via TDEE only (TDEE calc with 1 actvity level lower than you think) - don't eat back what gadgets say
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 01/07/2018 15:51

Good strategy, honky
If you have junk in the house, 2 basic possibilities:

  1. you eat it
  2. you don't Not allowing it any houseroom removes poss 1

Have a glass of water and clean your teeth, to change the taste

OP posts:
HonkyWonkWoman · 01/07/2018 17:35

I had two glasses of water and a Bovril in the end. I'm ok now and looking forward to my evening meal.

Iamblossom · 01/07/2018 20:58

Snap shot of the week attached. Be interesting to see what weigh in brings tomorrow. I am going to take a guess at bang on 9. Anything lower will be a result.

Iamblossom · 01/07/2018 20:58

Attached

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead
Iamblossom · 02/07/2018 07:45

8 10. V pleased. Fd for me.

FriendlyGhost · 02/07/2018 08:06

Well done lamb.
A FD here too. The dc are demolishing pancakes. I have done the shred and have my game face on.

openupmyeagereyes · 02/07/2018 08:08

Congrats lamb.

FD here. Pint of water and juice of half a lime consumed, about to have a cup of tea. Feeling good so far, cals all planned for today.

Good luck everyone.

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 02/07/2018 08:12

Just checking in
👋🏼
Have been away for a few weeks due to stressful life events.
But REALLY want to get back on the 5:2 wagon!
Holiday coming up in 6 weeks and would LOVE to be down to
12st - am 13.9 this morning Hmm
Good luck everyone BrewBrewBrew

quackingduck222 · 02/07/2018 08:14

Well done blossom that’s bloody fantastic.
How do you get those graphs on MFP? Are you a premium member?

Friendly- you’ve already done the shred already this morning? Impressed. Good luck for your FD.

OpenUp - good luck for your FD.

badger82 · 02/07/2018 08:20

Well done Blossom. Love that chart, I can only get cals though not split by mealtime

FD here today Smile

DaisyandTim · 02/07/2018 08:29

Brilliant job Iam

Terrible weekend food wise this weekend which included a surprise afternoon tea. No surprise that the scales showed 5lb up this morning Blush
NFD for me today but am going to try and keep a lid on it and have a b2b Tues and Weds. good luck to all fasters today.

HLBug · 02/07/2018 08:41

I am definitely absolutely going to the gym / Zumba tonight. There. Now that I've said it here it has to happen.

snailhunter · 02/07/2018 08:56

Right, I am going to start maintaining. Run length is going up a notch - ran 18.5km in two hours on Sat morning which wasn't bad considering it was bloody boiling - and I've been 9st 10 for nearly two months now on two FDs a week. Am feeling a bit stuck as to how to take that next tricky step from 'I am trying to lose weight' to 'I am trying to stay at the weight I am but get the food that I need to run lots.' Any ideas welcome!

HonkyWonkWoman · 02/07/2018 09:07

Morning all Fasters!

I've done ok on my Nfd's, so Fd today for me!
I've got Thick Veg Soup ready, so I'll have some of that as late as possible, then I'm having a Prawn Omlette and salad. A couple of Marmite drinks and that's me for the day.
Good Luck Monday Fasters!

Iamblossom · 02/07/2018 09:21

No I don't have premium.

I have the MFP app on my phone. Once in diary page I click into the 3 dots saying More on the bottom right - then into Nutrition - and it gives a graph and I chose the total not the Net view, Net factors in exercise calories burnt off and I want the totals.

Thanks for all kind words. Good luck fasters today!

We are in control of the food we eat today - it is not in control of us! [shakes pom poms]

DaisyandTim · 02/07/2018 09:29

Ooh snail no idea I’m afraid but good luck, and how exciting to be in maintenance!

Bug I shall also make a commitment to go for a run - going to have to now if I’m going to keep up in the Fitbit group Grin have fun at Zumba!

HonkyWonkWoman · 02/07/2018 09:33

Digs out my Pom-poms and gets in line behind Blossom, singing our mantra! 😂😂😂

badger82 · 02/07/2018 09:57

First marmite drink on the go. Just planned my next 5 days of food into MFP, feeling motivated 😀

HonkyWonkWoman · 02/07/2018 10:24

That's how I have to do it badger! I have to know what I'm going to eat, especially in Fd's. It seems to work for me and then there's no panic eating!

noideawhattocallmyself · 02/07/2018 11:54

Hi all - thanks for the new thread BCF (anyone else get a bit twitchy when the thread gets into the 900's - just me?? :) )
so was all optimistic of getting to the 12s - weigh after 2nd FD showed 12st 13.5lb but I keep my weigh day as Monday (in an attempt to control weekends) - had an OK weekend food wise and then this morning - ready for my weigh in and BOOM TOTM!! Angry
urgh!!
So 12's next week then??

hoochymama1 · 02/07/2018 12:32

Thanks for the new thread Grin

PopGoesTheWeaz · 02/07/2018 12:34

Well done snail. No advice I'm afraid but would be interested to hear how it goes as one day I will be there too, touch wood and all that.

Welcome back RisingSun. Hope everything is better or on track with life outside of Fasting x .

hoochymama1 · 02/07/2018 12:39

No idea, you will deffo be in the 12s next week Grin
Was on holiday last week, it was lovely, but, boy did I eat. Went on the scales this am and I have put on 4lb Blush
So up to 10.7 from 10.3. In one week Confused
Sigh.. drops Pom poms.
So...fired up by the meal planning on here have nice meals with lots of veg lined up for the next few days. Will not do Fd's until next week, still on hol this week too. I love doing fd's while at work, it goes so much easier.