Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Elsasalterego · 02/07/2018 13:16

Thanks for the exercise info BCF.

Borris · 02/07/2018 13:30

b2b day 1 under way. So far so good. Just had lunch of poached egg and small slice of bread and a nectarine. Marmite this afternoon and then shepherds pie with celeriac mash. I really enjoyed it last week.

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 02/07/2018 13:59

Aw thanks popgoes am getting there!

Right it's 2pm and nothing has passed my lips apart from tea, coffee & water.

Just swam 1k - definitely time for a salad!! 🥗 Smile

What a gorgeous day!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/07/2018 14:02

Well done on your SV and a good week, blossom

Excellent work, ghost Shred on an FD is just right - intense but a short burst

Noidea If scales upset you, best to avoid them during totm, as you will be retaining water
Stay focused, avoid the munchies, then the FD after the end of totm should release the water and show you safely in the 12 st somethings

smiled with 6 weeks before your hols, aiming to be in the 12 st somethings looks reasonable for you too.
Concentrate on the 5:2 healthy habits:

No snacking ever, NHS alcohol limits, lots of water & veg, keep junk to say 2 non-consecutive days per week, especially sugary treats

Brilliant run time, snail Is that a pb ?

Going by what worked for Anglaise, who I've mentioned before, was a superb long distance runner, winning her age class at quite high level events…

I suggest you try to maintain on 16:8, but keep the 5:2 healthy habits listed above.

Maybe for the next week or two, keep a weekly miniFD (1000 cals, healthy FD food rules)

hoochy Much of that holiday gain will probably be undigested food and retained water due to excess carbs.
A couple of good dumps and FDs may well get rid of most / all that

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/07/2018 14:04

Sounds a promising start to your FD, openup

Good luck to all the Monday fasters - do keep drinking water on this hot day !
< over 30 C again here >

OP posts:
noideawhattocallmyself · 02/07/2018 14:19

it's not the scales getting me down BCF it's TOTM - I'm 48 I was hoping I was getting past all that :) :)

I'm a bit of a data freak so I do actually like seeing my graphs changing - overall it's a downward trend - 4 weeks to holidays so will definitely be in 12s (and hopefully just overweight) by then :)
Good luck everyone - I'm doing Wed and Fri FD this week - hope everyone has an amazing week (and keep drinking water!!)

snailhunter · 02/07/2018 14:33

Ooh, I'm not actually sure if that's a PB, bcf. I did have to walk for ten mins in the middle and stopped my watch then, so not sure it would count anyway. (Was SO hot and even though I was running most of it in shade and drinking loads, I felt a bit weird.)

16:8 sounds intriguing. I reckon I could do that during the week and maybe throw in a mini so I can have nice weekend breakfast on Sat and Sun. So it would be something like eat final food at 6pm, then nothing till 10am next day, and the eight-hour Window of Eating starts there? Skipping breakfast, in essence.

PopGoesTheWeaz · 02/07/2018 15:30

Just realised I have a packed week with social evenings Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday and then camping festival this weekend. Has thrown me into a total tizzy as I normally do M/T b2b or M/W FDs. Thursday looks best but hardest as I'm at home.

Think I may try to do it Wednesday and just avoid alcohol and find bring something suitable to the bbq.

Looking on the bright side, it's probably good to have a challenge thrown in so that I can test it as a WOL rather than a routine, if that makes sense. But I can already tell it will be a challenge!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/07/2018 16:00

snail Any 16-hr fasting period is fine, just make sure it is as near zero calories as poss, including drinks too.
10am - 6pm is basically brunch to teatime, because eating would need to finish at 6pm, unless you extend the eating window to 9 hrs.
That would be 3 meals, no snacks or lattes etc between
or 2 meals and a mini-meal (contains substantial protein)

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 02/07/2018 16:54

Afternoon everyone and wow iam that's fab...

Went a bit off the rails yesterday after my unexpected gain on sat but all back to normal today. Was going to have today as fd but was out and about and busy and have moved this now to weds, so it'll be weds and Fri for me.

noidea how frustrating but you are so close!!

pop good luck with your busy week, you've just reminded me I'm out Thursday also, I'd forgot.

Sweltering again here, lots of water drunk Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 02/07/2018 16:54

Ouch hoochy a couple good fds and that will be off though...

cakegoblin · 02/07/2018 17:11

Checking in after a fab weekend away! I didn't manage to get down to 12 stone in time, did a couple of minis in the preceding days - BUT I felt good enough about myself to wear my bikini for the first time in years! Thanks to you lot really, for keeping me going. Decided not to worry about cals for the first time since I started, reeeeally enjoyed some delicious seafood and wine, still not much sweet stuff as I just think it won't do me any good now. Am now just doing a mini in readiness for fast days Wednesday-Thursday. Scales show I am back up to 12.5 stones but I am staying positive - just going to keep on keeping on, 1.5 stones to go so I am still halfway through. Will catch up with all your news later when I have some peace and quiet! Loving the new thread title btw!

Iamblossom · 02/07/2018 19:27

Maintenance fd finished on about 680.

Iamblossom · 02/07/2018 19:27

Hurrah for bikini cake

badger82 · 02/07/2018 19:53

Had a successful FD (no one saw me bite a tiny bit of a quiche Lorraine at about 6pm did they BlushSmile
But on track apart from that, it didn't escalate.
I've got a call with a hypnotherapist in the AM, it really helped me cope with anxiety around birth so wondering if it might do the trick for my self control (or lack of), will update!
Just off to PT now

Borris · 02/07/2018 20:08

600 cals for today. B2b tomorrow. Going to be boring and have the exact same meals

openupmyeagereyes · 02/07/2018 20:20

Hurrah for body confidence cake.

Well done to the Monday fasters! A pretty successful day here so far, I’m pleased after last week.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/07/2018 20:39

Excellent body confidence NSV, goblin, relaxing in a bikini again

That's good you are focused again, 43
We all have blips; just move on

Well done on your FDs, blossom, badger, borris, openup and all the Monday fasting gang

OP posts:
Borris · 02/07/2018 20:40

Does anyone else feel less hungry on FDs? Is it to do with insulin and metabolism? On a NFD I nearly always have breakfast and by mid morning I’m rumbling. Today I felt fine until lunch. Was hungry on drive home. Just finished tea and I feel stuffed!

HLBug · 02/07/2018 20:41

There was no air conditioning in the Zumba studio tonight. OH. MY. GOD.

Borris · 02/07/2018 20:44

Gosh bug. I bet you’ve sweated a kg or more!

Crashbumpthud · 02/07/2018 20:53

Kitchen closing on 450. Successful FD! Pleased to report that I lost 2lbs last week. Just hoping they haven't found me again over the weekend...! Blush

Well done to the other Monday fasters and also those managing to exercise in this heat!! Now off to catch up on the full thread!

openupmyeagereyes · 02/07/2018 20:57

I hope you chugged lots of water Bug

openupmyeagereyes · 02/07/2018 20:58

Borris I haven’t felt hungry today at all.

openupmyeagereyes · 02/07/2018 20:59

I’ve made some overnight oats for breakfast Smile