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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Iamblossom · 06/08/2018 07:36

Morning all checking in for my weekly fast day.

Hit my top limit of 8 12 this morning so need a good day today and then some careful days after that.

Had a wonderful day seeing a show in sweltering London with DH this weekend and banged out an also sweltering 22km walk yesterday, so feeling a bit achy this morning. Will walk dogs somewhere shady at 8am and go for a swim at lunch time. And then hide in my office avoiding the kitchen as much as possible.

Usual prawn omelette with salad planned for tea. On two week count down to 2 weeks in a bikini so need to keep on the straight and narrow.

Good luck to all Monday fasters! Today I am in charge of my food, it is not in charge of me.

Iamblossom · 06/08/2018 07:36

Well done Blue, Great NSV!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 06/08/2018 08:10

welcome mrsjolly and excellent news blue Smile

FD here also iam I like your mantra about being in control of food, this is something I let slip over the weekend! i'm blaming totm but i am fully back in charge today Grin

Hope everyone else has a good monday

quackingduck222 · 06/08/2018 11:05

Snail - what a fantastic victory in wearing your bikini and feeling happy with yourself. That really is incredible.

Granny - Good to see you again, I’ve been wondering where you were.
That’s really good to see your making changes. Low carb high fat and protein is great, are you finding it keeps you fuller for longer?
I used to be a bread hound but it’s just a occasional treat now. I tried Rye again as I used to enjoy that but found it very dry. I’ve switched the whole family over to Burgen bread and it is quite a bit lower carbs than normal. One of the big bread companies also do a lower carb bread but I’m pretty sure Burgen was lower so we went over to that.
Also just reading you use oven chips, have you tried any chip subs out there? Sweet potato, rainbow fries or carrot fries? Iceland sell all 3. I hate sweet potato so those were not nice for me but I tried carrot fries not expecting to like them but there actually bloody lovely.

Hi MrJolly, welcome. Sounds like you’ve made a great start already. Wow your TDEE is amazing that’s really quite high mine was 1400 on sedentary (sobs)
I hated the treadmill as it’s bloody boring but I tried doing HIIT on it in January and it’s great takes away the boredom as it mixes it up a bit. I do 30 seconds fast running then 30 seconds power walking and I still do it 3 times a week. I’d recommend you give it a go.
Good luck

Blue - good to see you back, I was also wondering how you were just the other day.
That’s really great news about your blood tests. How have you been keeping.

Lovely to see some familiar posters again.

Blossom good luck for your fast today.

43 also good luck to you for your FD.

I’m slightly above happy weight this week, FD Saturday was canceled so I may do a FD today or a mini perhaps. Will see what today brings

MrJollyLivesNextDoor · 06/08/2018 11:52

Thanks for the welcomes and the info/suggestions

I'm planning on FD Monday and Wednesday...but not today as it's my birthday so had to take cream cakes into office Smile

quack I will try HIIT on the treadmill - actually it's a really good idea as I'm rubbish at running so if I do it in running/walking bursts I'll be able to gradually build that up

Funnily enough I felt lighter when I woke this morning and weighed myself...a loss of of 2.5lb since yesterday! Even just thinking about doing 5:2 is helping me lose weight GrinGrin

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2018 12:01

Fantastic health NSV, blue and a well deserved reward for your hard work
Keep up with the healthy eating too - 6:1 to maintain would be excellemt with that.
I'm so glad for you Thanks

MrsJolly Grin In fact, deciding to start a healthier regime can unconsciously bring better habits even in the day or 2 before you start

OP posts:
bluerunningshoes · 06/08/2018 14:01

I'm really pleased :o

I'm not barrel shaped anymore. more wobbly plank

fasting today - good luck fellow monday fasters!

Iamblossom · 06/08/2018 14:33

Happy Birthday Mr Jolly

MazDazzle · 06/08/2018 15:31

Yay for banishing the barrel blue!

FD today after a weekend of mindful eating and making good choices. DH went away this morning with work. He’ll be home two weeks on Wednesday. In some ways it’s easier when he’s not here: no meals out, no one to share a bottle of wine with etc.

Today’s FD has been easy so far. I’m having salmon & salad for dinner and haven’t been hungry at all. The day seems to have gone by in a flash.

Happy birthday Jolly!

PopGoesTheWeaz · 06/08/2018 15:40

Just popping on to say hello as back from holiday. Probably won't have time to catch up on 2.5 weeks of messaging so suffice to say well done everyone and hang in there to anyone struggling!

Weighed my self and had a 1 kilo gain, but I'm not too worried as normally I only weigh in after fasting. First fast day is tomorrow and will weigh after that as my official weigh in. but I expect around a kilo anyway as had quite a bit of cheese and beer and food out. Definitely drove home how much harder it is to control what you eat when you are in someone else's kitchen.

HLBug · 06/08/2018 18:57

Popping in to quickly call "kitchen closed" on a Mini Monday. Finishing at roughly 1000 cals. Congratulations to the rest of the Monday crew for making it to dinner time Smile

dovegrey18 · 06/08/2018 19:01

I know I only joined back last week but a stressful week here... dm having surgery for bowel cancer so I'm going to stick to healthy habits but no fasting. Will hopefully get on the fast train once the op is out the way

Stircrazyschoolmum · 06/08/2018 19:26

Hey all

Kitchen closing at 550 (prawn and spinach omelette.. yum!)
I got sabotaged by sausages over the weekend - picnic and BBQ - so likely to be a flat week, but these things happen and I’m still learning.

dove you had an amazing loss last week, it feels important for you to be kind to yourself during stressful times so don’t beat yourself up about missing a day or two.

Happy Birthday jolly and welcome! You are in great company.

snail and pop very impressed with your post hol SV, you are an inspiration!

43 your squid salad sounds delish and far healthier than the calamari I was chomping on yesterday!

quack what are rainbow fries?

Well done to all the Monday fasters, on the home stretch now!

GrannyPenny · 06/08/2018 19:38

Hi Quacking - I used to eat Burgen Bread years ago but OH really hated it so I'd end up eating the lot - with nice bread I actually prefer my bread dry rather than having 'stuff' on it.

Can't say whether I feel fuller for longer particularly on the high protein lunch as the difference between what I have been eating and what I'm eating now is anything from 500 - 800 calories, so I'm spending most of the time between lunch and evening meal feeling hungry at the moment. Hoping that'll soon settle down though as i'm MFP-ing my lunch and I know calories are plenty.

Mazz - totally agree about things being easier when OH is not around. I've definitely found it harder since mine retired.

Happy birthday MrJolly, hope you had a lovely day.

Scales stubborn despite decrease in calories, but I do have NSV to report - waist is down from 48% to 47% of height. Used to be 36% a lifetime ago. Thinking that 45% by the end of the month should be achievable?

Iamblossom · 06/08/2018 19:47

Kitchen closed on 720. Considering another one on Thursday.

Walked dogs for an hour and swam 52 lengths.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 06/08/2018 20:01

Happy birthday mrsjolly Cake
stir the squid was delicious but not quite as delicious as deep fried calamari with aoili Grin

dove hope the operation goes well from your mum, be kind to yourself.

Glad you had a nice holiday pop you'll have that gain off in no time.

Well done all the Monday fasters, kitchen closed on around 528 cals, cup of tea later while watching last episode of 7 seconds!!

Excellent nsv granny

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2018 21:40

Best wishes to your DM for tomorrow, dove and take care of yourself too Thanks

Well done on your waist NSV, granny
The scales will probably catch up soon.

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 06/08/2018 23:14

I hope your mother’s op goes well dove. Flowers

My DH works away from home for 7 months of the year. When he’s home he thinks he’s on holiday with food and drink aplenty. There must be so much more temptation with your DH home all the time Granny!

FD was a bit tricky today. Felt a bit overwhelmed and stressed. Managed to come in at 475 cals and keep a happy house for the kids. I’m sometimes more prone to being grumpy on FD. More so today than usual.

Iamblossom · 07/08/2018 07:59

Hanger is a thing @maz. I used to get very hangry at the end of a 500 fast day. Mine are usually 700-800 nowadays which helps a bit but I go to bed by 9!!

8 stone 8 on the scales this morning, very happy about that. Just need to keep out of the gin cupboard and the nut tub for a few days now.

Hope the op goes well @dove

quackingduck222 · 07/08/2018 08:32

Happy Birthday for yesterday MrJolly.

Well done on the FD Maz.

Pop - hope you had a fab holiday, a kilo is nothing, that’s easily sorted a good FD and a poop and that will be off again.

Oh Dove, I’m so sorry to hear about your news. Look after yourself. Flowers

Stir crazy - rainbow fries are from Iceland and they are carrot, parsnip and beetroot fries I’ll add a picture of them below. Can’t comment on taste as I’ve not tried them but the carrot fries were surprisingly excellent.

Granny - it may be worth checking out the bread in the supermarket then. Asda send a burgen sub it’s a whole meal seeded bread and it’s nicer than burgen and the carbs aren’t much higher.

Well done on your FD blossom.

FD / mini didn’t happen yesterday either struggling to get my brain into gear. Nice surprise on the scales this morning only to realize I was holding onto the sink hence a good loss Grin after re weighing I was 0.2 lbs down.

Good luck to everyone today.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead
Iamblossom · 07/08/2018 08:48

Those rainbow fries look good! Will get some.

We found some fish burgers in Aldi at the weekend, 187 cals each, will report back.

bluerunningshoes · 07/08/2018 09:03

oh, apart from losing the barrel shape, my legs have firmed up.

first beach holiday without thigh dimples

Boysmomma · 07/08/2018 09:04

Morning all!

Happy birthday MrsJolly

Good luck today dove

quacking they look amazing, definitely stop off on my way home

Well done everyone one on your SV/NSV

FD today, skipped breakfast and I've my lunch all set to go. Fingers crossed it all goes to plan

good luck Tuesday fasters Grin

dovegrey18 · 07/08/2018 09:44

Bless you all, thank you. The op is tomorrow xxx

MrJollyLivesNextDoor · 07/08/2018 09:59

Thank you all - a lovely birthday was had!
However there are cream cakes still left in the works fridge from yesterday taunting me on my FD Confused
I've had words with colleagues about getting them eaten ASAP

I've been super organised this morning - cooked some mushrooms and garlic on low whilst drying my hair to add to my salad at lunchtime...make it feel a bit less salady
Mushrooms are so low in calories! I'm going to be living off them I think

dove hope the op goes well tomorrow