Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2018 11:09

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
(optional) Guide Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/08/2018 08:29

oh bcf i feel for you, urgh... any sign as to when it might cool down a little?

Fingers crossed for the scales plus

Stir enjoy your picnic

wow cake that is hardly any gain for a holiday, well done, I'm on a friday FD with you today Grin

excellent avoidance maz well done

Had a skinny latte on way to the office, then have turkey salad from subway for lunch (150cals) and not sure yet for tea but it needs to be about 250cals - any inspiration??

Have a good day everyone

dovegrey18 · 03/08/2018 09:07

Weigh in this morning - 9 stone 1.2lbs Grin down from 9 stone 6.1lbs on Sunday, before my 2 FD's this week.

One more fast should take me around the 9 mark and I'll be back to where I was before the few months I had off.

Then last stone to go!!!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/08/2018 09:47

wow dove 5lbs is amazing!!!

plus3 · 03/08/2018 10:08

Dove blimey that is amazing - my DH started fasting again this week, and lost 5lbs.
Me? Have stayed the same. Again. 11st 12lbs.

DropZoneOne · 03/08/2018 12:00

Friday FD here. Spent a while last night preparing a lovely egg and potato salad for my lunch today, comes in at 170 cals.

MazDazzle · 03/08/2018 12:05

5lbs is amazing Dove! Well done.

It’s tough not to lose heart when you stay the same plus, especially in the face of your DH’s success. Stick in and you’ll get there.

Started the day with what I had hoped to be Jillian Michaels’ ‘Shred’ on my new smart TV. It took forever to get it up on screen and it wasn’t the shred as I know it. It was like a routine for circus acrobats! I did the best I could, but it was laughable. Toddler woke and screamed through the first 5 mins, then chanted ‘Mam, mam, mam’ on repeat. I didn’t have enough floor space and at one point I even kicked my youngest daughter in the head! The doorbell went twice with deliveries. Finished the routine to the sound of the kids arguing from the next room! Grin

Had a wonderful breakfast of raspberries, strawberries, cherries, full fat Greek yogurt, mixed seeds & sliced chicken. 300 cals and I’m completely full.

Good luck to everyone fasting today.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/08/2018 14:23

sorry maz i shouldn't laugh but your update did make me titter, especially the bit about kicking your dd in the head! Hope she was okay Grin

plus is that an official plateau now?? Stick at it, it will shift especially if that weight has been a sticking point before?

plus3 · 03/08/2018 14:41

Sigh. I thought I had had a really good week. It was 11st 12.2 so almost a lb off. Feel defeated.

5:2 Thread No. 79: We’re avoiding POO CRUMBS on communal cake & biscuits and enjoying our meals instead
Iamblossom · 03/08/2018 15:07

Maz you had chicken in your fruit and yoghurt? Interesting tweak Hmm

Hockneypool · 03/08/2018 15:58

Stick with it Plus and don’t be defeated it’s just temporary even if it feels like forever. How do you feel otherwise and how are your clothes fitting?

Total Fd fail here - I forgot! Woke up hungry and had breakfast and lunch and then remembered I was just going to have dinner tonight. So may have a small dinner and call it a mini or leave it until next week.

Dove well done on your SV

Maz loved the shred description and that you kept going.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/08/2018 18:44

Just had a really lovely salad for fd dinner... 150g pack of squid is just 97cals.... I doused in lemon juice and salt and pepper and chargrilled dry for 2 mins, hen topped a large green salad with them and dressed it with sweet chilli sauce, delicious Smile

Fd done here on 503 cals, hope other Friday faster are managing okay... not long to go

snailhunter · 03/08/2018 19:28

Hello all! Thought I'd pop in and say hello from maintenance-land - I find it helps me stay on track!

Well, I've been maintaining for a month now: lots of running and just sticking to the rules - no snacking, very little booze, the occasional nice treat, and not eating when I'm not hungry. And they have worked!

I've just got back from holiday at an all-inclusive resort with food and alcohol EVERYWHERE (never again), and before that I was on a residential crafting course with cake being more or less thrown at me every hour (will certainly do again). Stuck to the rules and I've gone from 9st 9lb before I went away to...a shocking 9st 10lb this morning. :) Very pleased with myself!

I've got my half-marathon coming up in a couple of weeks so will now focus on that, and then I might think about going back to fasting for a few weeks to see if I can trim off anything that might have crept on over the summer.

Nice to see so many newbies and old hands here still! Keep on keepin' on!

plus3 · 03/08/2018 20:43

That sounds lovely 43

Hockney I feel full - I can't even bring myself to comfort eat, as stuffed after dinner. Can't remember when I last ate randomly in the evening...

Have eaten 1691 today - no snacking. 1 G&T with dinner. The rules are being followed.

I suppose I could try to move moreHmm

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/08/2018 22:44

Wow snail you sound like you have cracked that maintenance lark Smile just 1lb on..... well that could just be a big poo Grin

plus have you stuck at the weight you are now before, for a long time? Could be a plateau so just keep doing what you are doing and you'll hopefully get a whoosh soon. Very frustrating but it will start to move again.

Off to bed although dh is out for drinos so probably won't sleep until he's home Confused night everyone

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 03/08/2018 22:45

Drinos = drinks I hate this stupid autocorrect

BigChocFrenzy · 04/08/2018 06:45

Well done on your SV, dove

Good to hear you are maintaining so well, snail
Good luck with your half-marathon

plus I can't remember if you tried mfping absolutely everything for one week, for a reality check

  • also gives the totals of sugar and alcohol.

Do you keep the 5:2 healthy habits - nhs alcohol limits, no snacking, sensible about treats, lots of water ? - including at weekends.

OP posts:
newyorklover1 · 04/08/2018 07:39

My 4th week weigh in and I've stayed the same this week Sad I've done two fasts and two mini fasts this week so it doesn't make sense really.

But disheartening as I'm 2.5lb away from seeing the next stone bracket and I really want to be there by 3 weeks today as I have an event to attend Confused going to plod on this week and hopefully see some progress!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 04/08/2018 08:12

That's rubbish newyork is your totm near? That can sometimes hide a loss. Are tour mfping everything?

1lb on for me this week Shock I didn't think it was such a bad week, but I only mfp'd half the week, I clearly can't be trusted not to record everything everyday!!! Oh well.... fd's will be Monday and Wednesday next week then I'm off to London with dh and ds thurs-Monday so it's going to be v v v tricky!

plus3 · 04/08/2018 08:39

Morning - yep MFP everything this week - the graphs show that I am eating between 35-40% Fat ...wonder if that is dairy? Protein is about 20% & carbs go up/down in relation to fat.

Not sure if this is a plateau or just very slow loss. Generally losing a lb either weekly or every 2 weeks.

Am due on on Monday

plus3 · 04/08/2018 08:45

NewYork that is disappointing after what sounds like a very disciplined week.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/08/2018 08:57

plus The really important macros are sugar (not necessarily carbs) and alcohol - if these are too high, they can seriously hinder loss.

Even more important is whether you are within TDEE, averaged over the 5 NFDs, i.e. not over-doing weekends
If so, especially if you are already around healthy BMI, that is probably the rate at which your particular body will lose

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 04/08/2018 09:04

Newyork How long have you sts ?
One week is nothing, because natural water fluctuations can easily hide a 1lb loss
You need to look at the trend over periods over 2-3 weeks.

Also, check if you have been losing inches,
because that is all that matters for clothes fit, or what people see, if this concerns you.
Noone knows your weight, as it really is only a number.

If sts has been 2 weeks+, then check your NFDs via mfp for a week

  • many folk who increase FDs or miniFDs subconsciously compensate with more high calorie density treats & alcohol, also larger portion sizes.
Also check via mfp the amount of sugar grammes and alcohol.

Note to all:
many folk can lose the first chunk, even while averaging above TDEE, but to progress further, they need to retrain and stay regularly within TDEE.

OP posts:
Boysmomma · 04/08/2018 10:40

Morning all! TOTM and it came with a bang, I feel do heavy and bloated.

I'm skipping weigh in tomorrow, I'll keep going with the FD etc but I've a feeling the scales won't be nice to me (nothing to do with the mint magnum, hot chocolate &crisps the other night) Blush

I had a sandwich for lunch yesterday, calories were fine I'd planned on it but I've had serious cramping since, is this normal? Not had an issue before but I stopped bread completely for the last 2 weeks.

plus3 · 04/08/2018 10:44

Bizarrely- have just weighed in- 11st 11 lbs exactly!!
That will be this week's official weight Grin

plus3 · 04/08/2018 11:17

BCF I only have the free version of MFP - can see the sugar (appear to have eaten under the goal for the week) but not any stats for alcohol- would say I drink within limits & definitely not on FDs

Swipe left for the next trending thread