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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 76: Your body needn‘t be a temple, but join us to stop it being a junky drive-thru.

989 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/04/2018 23:10

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs.
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 16/05/2018 07:38

Hi Mirormiror21

I'm pretty much the same height / weight as you. Have been doing 5:2 a month and it's working, have lost 5lbs in a month.

But my weight is a bit up and down. Have decided I definitely need to tackle NFDs - as in give the wine a miss!

Good luck Grin

bluerunningshoes · 16/05/2018 07:41

Do any of you feel hungry between meals on NFDs? And if so, how do you deal with it?

have a drink of water. often 'hi ger is really thirst. and often it's not hunger, but a craving.

littleladylawyer · 16/05/2018 07:51

Morning all.

I had a last minute conference all day yesterday so it ended up being a b2b as no chance to get lunch!

homemade and delta I totally get this. My bmi is low but I carry any extra weight round my tummy and I'm very short so it shows. It can be really difficult to keep motivation, especially at weekends, as I've never been overweight. I've got a bikini holiday at the end of June though which is providing my short term motivation! I'm trying to be more active and build some muscle too, as previously I've been slim but flabby. I try to think about the non weight loss benefits of eating healthily too- better skin, shiny hair, no bloating.

Good luck wreck and today's fasters!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/05/2018 08:04

smiled embarrassingly I do hardly no exercise apart from walking the dog and walking to and from the train station every day (about 20mins each way) Blush I always skip breakfast on my NFDs but then I have never really been a fan of breakfast so this is quite easy for me to do, and I try to eat relatively low carb on NFDs also, I do love wine and cheese though and during the week I might have a glass or 2 if we are out somewhere for dinner (this is progress as I used to have wine practically everyday prior to 5:2) and over the weekend I will have alcohol but I've usually 'saved' a good few hundred calories over 3 nfd's to allow for this Grin the other thing that I am sticking to for the most part is the no snacking rule - ever - it really has changed my eating habits and I can now go quite long periods between meals without feeling hungry (except for when totm)

Is it wine that you are struggling with??

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/05/2018 08:18

p.s. smiled 5lbs in a month is a great loss Smile

bluerunningshoes · 16/05/2018 08:25

fd here
but already fell victim to autopilot with milk in my tea and I even licked the spoon I used to decant dc's yoghurt for school...

calzone · 16/05/2018 08:28

I’m feeling really sick this morning so I’m going to have a FD and see how I get on.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/05/2018 08:37

doh blue but i'm sure you haven't done much damage

hope you feel better soon calzone Flowers

MirrorMirror21 · 16/05/2018 09:04

I've already reached my first goal Grin 13st 7 this morning. Sure it will fluctuate and is just because my belly's empty, but I'm taking it. Grin

quackingduck222 · 16/05/2018 09:19

Blue - good luck for your FD today.

PoppyCat - thanks, I know it’s crazy I definitely didn’t eat 9lbs worth of food. Grin
Good luck for your mini and well done on your 5lbs loss, that’s loads.

Pop - well done on your B2B, it wasn’t very long ago hardly anyone did B2B but you lot are hardcore!

Clutter - the secret to not being hungry I find is water and more water. The hunger comes and goes through the day but after a while it does disappear. A hot drink often helps too.

Well done on your first FD Borris.

Well done homemade that’s a amazing NFD.

Mirror welcome, and congrats on your loss. I think you will like 5:2 as it’s not a constant diet 24/7 counting points / calories and allows some freedom that you just don’t get with other diets.
1900 TDEE is a good amount and used wisely can be a lot of food. Well done on your first FD and good luck.

Friendly- good luck on your FD and also well done on your losses your doing great.

Cheshire- well done on turning a bad day around and doing a mini. It’s so easy to say sod it and go off the rails but you didn’t.

43 - it’s fine it’s your birthday and you’ve done amazing.

Good luck for your fast today tangled.

Little lady- well done on your impromptu B2B.

Just under 1/2 of that 9lbs gain came off with my FD yesterday I still have a belly bloat but that should hopefully do one in the next few days. Planning for a good day today and hopefully a run today.

Good luck for everyone doing a FD / B2B

MirrorMirror21 · 16/05/2018 09:30

Is it ok to have crisps on a NFD? As part of a meal with a seeded ham salad sandwich? Just a little multipack 120cal packet. Or are they too processed/ junky to have regularly?

WreckTangled · 16/05/2018 09:47

Mirror I think they're fine to have occasionally I would consider them junk food and stick to BCF's recommendation of no more than twice a week.

I just went into a school that have been giving their sats pupils sausage sandwiches. It smelt so good! And I've forgotten my water bottle so can't even have a drink until I get back to the office.

OohMrDarcy · 16/05/2018 10:38

Morning all,

I'm still hanging around- got the lurgy so not fasting this week. Hope you are all good!

Borris · 16/05/2018 10:39

I’m going b2b today. I just feel it’s easier as I pick dd up tonight and she’s with me till Monday morningSmile. So then over the weekend we can be relaxed about eating together. Baked potatoes with salad tonight and cheese for dd.

WreckTangled · 16/05/2018 11:42

I'm so quiet at work I have no idea how I'm going to manage a FD Sad starving already

CheshireSplat · 16/05/2018 13:36

Oh poor you, Wrecked that wasn't yesterday.

43 bobs, boobs without the "ooh" 😁 your weight loss is very impressibe, and micifn into overweight rather than obese is a massive NSV. Are you going on your walking group this week..?

Having a sensible mini/mindful NFD after yesterday. Yum yum.

HLBug · 16/05/2018 13:43

FD for me today. Tomato and Basil soup with small bread roll for lunch (this is genuinely the most appealing option in the work canteen today so I definitely don't feel deprived!). Marks Chicken ready meal for tea tonight as DH and DS are having a curry and I can't stand the stuff.

Weighed myself this morning and I've STS as goal weight last week - so that's promising! Especially as my lovely fancy lunch I'd planned yesterday actually turned into Five Guys as I had to run for my train home Confused

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/05/2018 13:47

Oh no.... that's the worst thing wrecked fds are so much easier when busy.... be strong.

Impressive memory cheshire yes it's tonight and I am planning to go billynomates

Well done in sts bug Smile

WreckTangled · 16/05/2018 13:47

Mmmm five guys

I feel ok now, it's always that bit before lunch time that I struggle a bit but now I know I'll have dinner in three hours which is chicken sausage pasta yum! And if I go easy on the pasta I can have some high protein yoghurt after Smile

calzone · 16/05/2018 13:55

Just still trying to get my head around this WOE.....

I fasted on Monday.

Ate sw style yesterday but ate some rubbish 🙄🙄

Fasting today.

Should that be the last fast until Monday or could I squeeze another one in and do 4;3?

Do I skip breakfast most days or should I eat breakfast?

TIA 💐

FriendlyGhost · 16/05/2018 13:58

Also struggling on a FD here. I usually try to last until dinner but I just had some lettuce with high protein cottage cheese because there was no way I would last without cracking and eating something silly. I’m going to take the dc to the park in a bit to distract myself. I think the ridiculously early wake up messed with me.
On the plus side I just remembered my favourite non scale victory: I wore a dress yesterday and my thighs didn’t rub when I was walking. This made me very happy.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/05/2018 14:02

calzone I think from reading previous threads that bcf doesn't advise 4:3 (I hope that's correct) something about it being too much and turning it into less of a wol and more like a diet? Bcf will explain more I'm sure.

No you don't have to skip breakfast if you don't want to, I do it out if personal preference but you do whatever works for you Smile ask away, someone on here will know the answer (usually bcf )

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 16/05/2018 14:02

Excellent nsv ghost Grin

calzone · 16/05/2018 14:05

Ok great......thanks

bluerunningshoes · 16/05/2018 14:19

I'm struggling today - 5 hours until dinner...
might have a second mug of boullion. have left my 'emergency carrot' at home as last times I didn't need it.
braskfast - I need something or I feel faint and sick, but a glas of kefir does the trick for me.

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