Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
TalkinPeece · 27/03/2018 14:17

Phew, you got my message !!!
I did not want to start a thread as I knew you have the template :-)

75,000 posts and still here Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:18

BlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlush
Blush
Blush Apologies for delay - my internet seized up !
Blush
BlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlush

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 27/03/2018 14:18

Thank god for that. I thought my lifeline had been taken away.

Thanks TiP and BCF for sorting out the new thread. Wow we get through these fast.

NoWayNoHow · 27/03/2018 14:22

OMG bcf I thought I broke everything by STUPIDLY being the 1,000th post! Didn't realise that I'd filled the thread until it was too late! Sorry sorry sorry Blush

TalkinPeece · 27/03/2018 14:24

Noway
I'd meant to dive in and pop a holding post at 999 but got distracted by a cat video Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:26

I normally start a new thread after 970 posts …
but didn’t realise my internet was frozen until I saw TIP’s EM on another machine

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:27

Big ThanksThanks to TIP

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 27/03/2018 14:38

PHEW!

Yay to a new thread!!

insertcleverusername · 27/03/2018 14:43

Hello everyone Smile

Just checking in on a NFD, all going well so far! Porridge and skinny latte for breakfast, and a prawn and chorizo salad for lunch with no dressing.

I hope you're all having good days, fasting or otherwise!

slinkyme · 27/03/2018 14:50

Shiny new thread. Thanks BCF

HLBug · 27/03/2018 15:52

Oh good god, I thought I'd lost you all Shock

GrannyPenny · 27/03/2018 16:17

Thanks for the new thread BCF.

Today is going to be a FD. The scales are staying stubbornly static even though my watch is slipping annoyingly down my wrist and I've had to tighten up my running bra. I have 0.3kg to lose to get to where I was in January and a further 2kg to lose to get to where I was in July last year.

Goals for today. Exercise class - done; no snacking; FD.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 27/03/2018 16:23

Thanks for the thread Smile
Nfd today and so far so good.
Skipped breakfast, no snacks, had chicken salad with some potato salad and olives for lunch was delicious followed by a raspberry yogurt. Got tuna steak with roasted veg with feta for dinner and maybe a couple of squares of dark chocolate or some Greek yogurt for afterwards.

Good luck any Tues faster's and b2b hardcores!

boldlygoingsomewhere · 27/03/2018 16:35

Thanks for new thread. Smile

Paranormalbouquet · 27/03/2018 16:54

Thanks for the thread and the heads up! NFD, had porridge for breakfast and a nice salad for lunch. More curry for dinner with some rice tonight and maybe a poppadom or two.

NoWayNoHow · 27/03/2018 16:58

HLBug I felt that same "other level" of panic!!!

Hope you've all had good days today. I'm starvin' and therefore going to have to restrain myself at Lebanese! Very excited though...

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 17:08

Good luck to all the Tuesday fasters, especially any newbies Smile

From the old thread:

Yes, b2b = 2 x back-to-back fasts, where you have 650 cals on each of those FDs.
The higher allowance is because you start FD2 in an already fasted state.
This 5:2 version was developed (before Mosely) by Dr Michelle Harvie and can be more convenient for some folk.
Her work and human trials of her 5:2 were sponsored by cancer research charities

Glad the tip about 3 miniFDs may help, boldly
It should give about the same rate of loss as standard 5:2 and those who've tried it have confirmed the theory.

bug Yes, the media will sometimes copy tips or science we put here.
TIP will remember the cribbing from the early days of 5:2

OP posts:
CheshireSplat · 27/03/2018 17:19

I'm hungry! Leaving the office soon, today I've had 5 small cups of tea, lots more cups of herbal tea (particularly enjoying m&s lavender, limeflower and camomile). Have had 205 calories of delicious pea and mint soup. Can't wait for my omlette, my stomach is eating itself.

But I'll have an early night and that's my 2 FDs done for the week. Really determined to do well on my NFDs, still smarting from much needed telling off from TiP about my snack flippancy. Blush

Thanks for the new thread BCF.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 27/03/2018 17:20

bcf does the 3 mini fd approach have the same additional health benefits as 5:2?

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 27/03/2018 17:20

Well done so far splat not long to go now Smile

peachypips · 27/03/2018 17:33

I also felt a panic Grin

Enjoy the Lebanese Noway. At least it's relatively healthy!

I do b2b for the convenience- I can't do Mon as it's a heavy exercise day and I don't like it hanging over until Thurs, so it's Tues and Wed for me. I like the idea of the three mini fast days. Maybe I'll try that sometime.

FD here. Always feel very grumpy on my first FD of the week. Really hungry and cross! However on the other days I'm delighted with the whole thing!

Going to try and keep up with the new thread as the old one raced away from me somewhat.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 17:51

43 Judging from the published science research & human trials:

  • 3 miniFDs would bring some health benefits, but not quite as much as 5:2 with 500 FDs.

  • b2b with 650 FDs would bring more health benefits than non-consecutive with 500 cals, because of starting FD2 already in a fasted state

  • Adding daily (or most days) 14:10 or 16:8 to either of the above would boost health benefits
    At least always try for 12:12

  • Healthy habits on FDs and NFDs are also important for maximum fasting benefits:
    No snacking, NHS alcohol limits, lots of water, regular exercise, regular sleep.

BUT also note:

  • The most important aspect of a fasting WOL is that it is something you can do consistently week after week, longterm. So for most people, it is far better to do non-consecutive FDs and 12:12, rather than attempt b2b and keep missing FD2, or getting stressed

AND for maintainers:

  • Longterm weight maintenance is easier with either daily 16:8 / 14:10 or with 5:2 / 6:1 on 800 FDs
  • and longterm weight management is crucial for health, more so than what kind of FDs you manage

Anyone really keen on health benefits in maintenance:

  • I suggest one week per month, intensify the fasting with 500 FDs, or try a b2b
  • and always keep to daily 12:12, preferably 14:10
  • plus of course the healthy fasting habits listed above
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 17:51

Well done, cheshire Nearly there !

OP posts:
TalkinPeece · 27/03/2018 18:32

cheshire
Consider your shoulder firmly grasped Grin

But seriously, SNACKING and TREATS are the two bits of food NOBODY NEEDS
And once you get rid of them you free up calories for yummy meals
while staying a healthy size

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 27/03/2018 18:47

Wow thanks bcf so informative. ...