Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
purpleviolet1 · 28/03/2018 07:29

Yogi that's fantastic! Well done

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/03/2018 07:32

well done yogi enjoy your easter.

One of the few "forbidden" things on 5:2 is guilt about food - BCF this has really resonated with me, so thank you - makes such a refreshing change to think this way

FD here today, don't normally do a weds and I'm working from home, so hoping I can keep out of the kitchen!!!!!

Paranormalbouquet · 28/03/2018 08:26

Have decided, on balance to fast today. Even though I’ve woken up hungry! Going away tomorrow immediately after work so will need to eat in airport which is generally harder to find calorie controlled options in. Also have a busy day ahead of me so should keep me distracted.

Away next week so thinking of doing 16:8 all week or maybe aiming for 3 mini fasts. Will be staying with family and don’t want to discuss diets/eating with them!

@yogi47 that’s a fantastic loss, hopefully I’ll manage similar! @Fortythreeandfatasfuck not sure I could manage to fast at home- respect!

peachypips · 28/03/2018 08:47

Hi Underpants! Fantastic and very supportive thread here.

Well done on B2B HLBug. Day 2 of mine here. Had marmite for breakfast!

Well done on all non-SVs and SVs folks and for staying strong. Hi all Wed fasters.

My mantra getting me through this B2b is 'Wispa Easter egg on Sunday'

peachypips · 28/03/2018 08:47

Hi Underpants! Fantastic and very supportive thread here.

Well done on B2B HLBug. Day 2 of mine here. Had marmite for breakfast!

Well done on all non-SVs and SVs folks and for staying strong. Hi all Wed fasters.

My mantra getting me through this B2b is 'Wispa Easter egg on Sunday'

boldlygoingsomewhere · 28/03/2018 09:10

In awe of the B2B fasters!
I was thinking of making my fast day today but am at home with my daughter so not very practical. Will do it tomorrow at work instead - it will be easier to keep distracted and I can take 2 small meals with me so that I don’t have to eat again when I get home.

OohMrDarcy · 28/03/2018 09:19

Morning all!

Sounds like lots of b2bs going on at the moment, well done all!

Very successful FD for me yesterday, meant to post at the end last night but I was knackered and forgot! Next FD is tomorrow.

Got the dreaded dentist today for a filling which shan't be fun... ho hum, I'll get over it - the joys of having crap teeth!

peachypips · 28/03/2018 09:20

Don't be in awe- I only do it because it's actually easier for me. Day 2 I am not hungry normally whereas on single days I'm starving!

I like two small meals too. Much more manageable for me.

HLBug · 28/03/2018 09:34

yogi that's a fantastic loss this month - well done

littleladylawyer · 28/03/2018 10:05

Good luck fortythree, paranormal and peachy for today's fasts.

Wow well done yogi, that's a great loss.

I'm really looking forward to my planned omelette for lunch, feel very empty after b2b.

New oven coming on Saturday and thinking of doing some baking for a family lunch on Sunday. Does anyone have any experience of making 'healthier' treats, eg using sweetener rather than sugar?

TeisanLap · 28/03/2018 10:07

Hello everyone,

It’s Fionne here, I’m just in on my broomsticks go to ask how you all are and see how it’s going for you.

I’m doing fine, I’m down 12 kilos now since the 6th of January and feeling really happy. Like a different woman to be honest.

I’ve missed the threads and will be in more often from now on.

I bet you can’t wait.

TalkinPeece · 28/03/2018 10:18

Well done Teisan
I bet your knee and hip joints are thanking you for that weight loss as well

NoWayNoHow · 28/03/2018 10:43

Well done yogi on your loss - amazing!

Lebanese was yum and I did have baklawa . Have ANOTHER leaving do tonight so going to try to be really balanced with the booze (it'll be a long evening) - I desperately need to get a FD in tomorrow before heading away to PILs for Easter weekend, and I really don't want to try fasting with a hangover...

No breakfast yet, so will see if I can manage a 16:8 today to mitigate any extra liquid calories!

Good luck all fasters today!

quackingduck222 · 28/03/2018 11:00

Wow everyone has been fasting. Well done to everyone who has fasted and done b2b. Just too many to name as these threads move fast.

Little lady - I used to try making healthier treats with sweetener (on dredded slimming world) and il be honest I didn’t have much luck as they usually taste like shite. I decided on the WOL I’d rather have a little bit of real cake or whatever I fancy than a load of something that’s not going to satisfy me.

Fionne / teisan good to see you. I was wondering how you were getting on yesterday as I didn’t think I saw you for ages.
Blimey 12 kg Shock that is loads and absolutely fantastic. Are you still doing the BSD principals along with 5:2?

peachypips · 28/03/2018 11:12

Little - there's no feeling like the emptiness of a B2b! Enjoy the omelette! I just do normal baking and eat less of it. Rather that than eat lots of something not as good!

Hi Fionne- you have done amazingly. That's a lot of weight! I've only lost 9 pounds since the end of April.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/03/2018 11:20

I'd agree, baking with sweetners etc just isn't the same, so try and have less of the proper stuff - I'm just baking some brownies for tomorrow's pudding with friends, really a bad idea on a FD as the house smells divine and there is no escaping it :(

Well done fionne that's amazing loss

noway I love baclava - yum!!!!! good luck on the FD tomorrow and enjoy tonight

snailhunter · 28/03/2018 11:29

I love baking and part of the joy for me is using really good ingredients. I agree, I’d rather have a small slice of proper cake with real sugar and butter than a big one with marg and stevia.

GrannyPenny · 28/03/2018 11:44

Morning all.

Great loss Yogi, very well done.

TIP - thanks for the reminder that this is for the sake of my health, the weight loss being a bonus. Its a good focus when the scales are stubborn.

We have visitors for a week from Sunday and like Paranormal I don't want to discuss diets/food with them, so spurred on by the B2B successes, am considering following yesterday's FD with an 800 low carb day today. Should be doable. Should.

TalkinPeece · 28/03/2018 11:56

Grannypenny
The secrets to eating less with guests .....
no snacking
load your plate up with salad / veg
do a meal where you are "too busy organising stuff" to eat more than a snack yourself .... eg breakfast its easy to get away with just having tea when others eat

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2018 12:00

Well done on your SV, yogi That's good progress

Well done on your SV too, teisan That should have helped your high BP

lawyer To make baking healthier, I switched from using wheat flour to almond flour
I also use only olive oil or coconut oil instead of butter or marge (dairy fat makes me nauseous anyway)

Re sweeteners - your choice whether you use sugar
or try a recipe with say dates instead.

Splenda is ok, you just use the same volume, NOT weight
Stevia is difficult to judge the amount, as it is so strong.

I advise against Aspartame / Equal / Nutrasweet as I've heard they go yuk when baked
also avoid sugar alcohols like maltitol, as they can cause flatulence

OP posts:
littleladylawyer · 28/03/2018 13:14

Teisan you must feel fantastic after a 12kg loss!

Thanks quacking, fortythree, peachy and snail. I've thought about it and I agree, better to have a sensible portion of something real rather than lots of something artificial and unsatisfying. BigChoc using fruit/veg as part of the sweet aspect is a good idea. I have quite a bit of almond flour hanging around so will see if I can use that.

I think I'm going to stick to my Monday fd next week- it seems weird on a bank holiday but I think part of the reason this works for me is that it helps reset my appetite after a couple of more indulgent days rather than letting the indulgence carry on too long!

OohMrDarcy · 28/03/2018 18:13

Evening all,

Another healthy NFD here, aided by my dentist visit. Had a crappy start of evening with a work callout which made me tearful for some unknown reason, it occurred to me that when not on the wagon I'd have sworn at dinner and ordered a take away (attempting to cook dinner and fix stuff)... but I didn't, I ate my pasta cold !

Also, noticed some clothes are starting to feel looser Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2018 19:19

That's a promising clothes NSV, MrD You have burned some fat

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 28/03/2018 19:21

Darcy well done on on your healthy NFD. And fantastic progress on not having a take away. We used to be the same, it’s just too easy to order fast food.

Littlelady - yes probably best, that artificial sugar just isn’t sweet like sugar and you need to use a tonne and still comes out tasting crap.

Impromptu FD here at just over 800 cals. I ordered my online shop yesterday and waited in for the truck today but I never placed the order as I never checked out Blush

BCF can I do 6:1 on 800 cals or should it be 500 cals? Or am I ok to play it by ear depending on if the scales are up / down that week?

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2018 19:42

duck In your case, you should be fine on 800 cals for 6:1
(Other folk might not be; it's very individual)

OP posts: