5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.

• Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.

It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.

• Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss

Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.

Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !

Well don pumper on al the all time low. Sorry been naff at keeping up with the thread. Trying to do a 2nd FD today but am
Supposed to be out this afternoon to take MIL to the local shopping centre. Will have to be good and have just a coffee.

Should have fasted yesterday but felt too drained to fast. This morning have woken up with conjunctivitis. DS away on school trip and just the busyness of getting everything ready and busy work days has run me down I think. Looking forward to a long weekend.

Am so tempted to jack it in right now but will persevere a bit longer.

duck and darcy it's interesting you're not fussed about eggs. I never used to have a sweet tooth at all, and would easily go for months without choc/cake/biscuits/ ice cream. The thought of anything sweet made me feel sick!

I lost about 10lb over the first 6 months of last year (I was healthy bmi but chubby on my very petite frame) and now I get huge cravings for choc and other sweet stuff. Maybe it's my body's reaction to losing weight- a 'quick, you're getting slimmer, binge on lots of sugar to recover' type thing! I'm trying to keep to low gi carbs but it is difficult at times. I find avoiding easier than moderation!

Checking in rather late for my Thursday FD! So far so good: won't be able to fit in a run as crazy busy with work/kids breaking up/random stuff but will do lots of walking - making the most of the brief spells of sunshine! Tonight's meal will be a small portion of pasta with sauce made from mushrooms and creme fraiche. Looking forward to it already!

Good for you, granny nailing a b2b. That might indeed suit you better
I suggest FD2 be a training rest day

Well done on your SVs, peachy and pumper - congrats in your lowest weight milestone too

Good luck with all the hospital appts, paranormal
I hope they sort things out quickly, so you can build up your running again
In the meantime, I recommend cross-training with upper-body lifts and abs work

Keep glugging the water, MrD It helped you last time

Stay focused, slinky you might feel more energetic later
Maybe turn today into a healthy miniFD (sub-1000)

I'm just sort of checking in to keep myself motivated. I still feel so rough, I'm really fed up of feeling so bad - horrible amounts of thick green goo constantly being blasted into about 100 tissues a day is probably not going to make anyone very cheery .

So. I am trying to plan two FD for next week and start this ball rolling I wanted to try a mini this week but I just haven't got the energy.

I'm also drinking a ridiculous amount of herbal tea and water. It looks like DS also has a similar illness. But he doesn't have a temp- which is good- he is just snotty, coughing and whinging.

Sorry. Not much to report. But I want to be accountable.

Still going on just water here and feeling good. Particularly as it means I can enjoy dinner with the DC tonight

sorry to hear you are still feeling rough underpants. Fingers crossed it buggers off soon for you!

Lawyer, I was naturally more into savoury when younger than sweet, so supect it is a return of that!

Pumper wow! Well done you!

Quacking - yes, my first B2B. I think it helped sticking to 500 for the first FD and then adding the additional 150 calories you're allowed for a B2B onto the second day, so I had "wobble" space.

Slinky - no harm in taking a break from FDs until you feel mentally more able to cope. When I came back to 5:2 recently I knew my head wasn't in the right place to tackle a FD, so instead I set my daily goal as "no snacking". I felt a fraud coming back and just committing to no snacking whilst all around me were talking about FDs and B2Bs, but ultimately it's really helped to get me back on track into this WOL. Stay strong; stay here.

Hope you feel less pants soon pants. Nutritious food will do you far more good than a mini FD, so concentrate on getting better for now.

Lawyer - I have an incredible sweet tooth - and zero will power once I start. I have a mug which says "I can't sleep if there's cream cake in the fridge" and this sums me up perfectly. I swear M&S were pumping hot cross bun smells out of their store today, the ba**tards. Just as well I didn't have money on me ... .

Tentatively reporting a SV - not sure how much of it'll go back on after the B2B but they were down 0.5kg this morning. Goals for today - no snacking; go for a run; eat within TDEE; avoid M&S.

Fantastic Granny.

I do agree about having food in the house, it does call out too me.
I’m not overly fussed about chocolate tho. I was bothered each Easter when I couldn’t have it. Now I can I’m not that bothered. Always the way hey?

I occasionally enjoy Reece’s peanut butter cups as they do hit the sweet craving spot. I’ve swapped from sweets to those as less calories

granny and slinky and pants don't ever feel bad or guilty or a fraud if an FD doesn't go to plan or you meant to start and you didn't because you're ill or life is stressful. I am a big fan of not setting yourself up to fail and planning for success. I have a perfectionist DS so we have done a lot of work around this!

I think granny's strategy of just setting that initial no snacking goal was brilliant - it's easier, so you're more likely to stick to it, so then you're feeling positive and in a better place mentally to tackle the next goal. And personally I wouldn't even consider doing any FDs unless I was fully well - nobody is going to give us any medals for powering through, sadly! And there is no deadline and no failing and no black marks. Be kind to yourselves: make this a positive change rather than a stick to beat yourselves with, and if that means waiting until the time is right, or doing it one step at a time, then do that.

Right, that's my lecturing on this thread done and as I've probably put everyone to sleep, I'm off to find someone else to lecture. I was going to walk the dog but I appear to have put him to sleep too...

Snail what a very motivating post!

Fully agree with you. Also everyone is here and doing it. In my book that’s the biggest achievement ever. Life sometimes throws things in the way but that’s the beauty of 5:2 it’s so flexible. Even if your not fasting look at how far you’ve come, the better habits you’ve picked up along the way.

To reiterate what snailhunter said
This is a journey.
We all start and finish in different places and only we know what motivated us to take it.
Learning healthy eating habits that will last the rest of your life is much more important than whether you manage two 500 calorie fasts in any one week.

I very rarely do 500 calories nowadays especially when the weather is so blerdy depressing
but I also never snack and find eating within my TDEE across the week no longer needs MFP or even much thought.

That mental place will keep me going for the next 30 years
if I eat too much one day I can always eat less the next.

Granny and snail really thank you for the really kind post. It is very reassuring and comforting. I know I need to just give myself a break here. I am just so worried that once I stop I will undo everything so far as I have beforehand. I so agree with you that I have nothing to prove to anybody and just need to be kind to myself.

For what it's worth I have stuck to FD today and will see how it goes for the rest of day. It has got so much easier as the day has gone. But I am not going to fight it and will let it unfold naturally. Thank you to this group. You are all so inspirational and so supporting.

Just had my dinner, didn't even put chrese on my piece, deserve a halo for that I reckon! 😇

I’m just waiting to depart on my holidays. Have not had any snacks while running around London and dashing from work to recurrent miscarriage clinic to airport. I did have a heavier lunch than I should have (wasabi warm bento box) but I think resisting snacks in airport is a definite step forward. For me!

Hope everyone’s fasts are going well.

Well done on your SV and on your good habits NSV, granny
I totally agree with your initial approach - whenever anyone is not ready to fast, I recommend a "prepping" period with our healthy 5:2 habits, minus the FDs

We all progress at our own pace here, no competition:
it's a WOL not a race

• and we're building good habits for longterm health, not "just" for weight management

underpants That sounds terrible
Good that you're taking in lots of fluids

Maybe turn those FDs next week into miniFDs ?
If you're keen to see some weight drop off, you could always do the system of minis on Mon+Wed+Fri - it's for those who find full FDs too tough, including those who are rather fragile

You're doing really well on a tough day, slinky

Have a relaxing break next week, plenty of TLC, just try to keep to the good 5:2 habits:
No snacking, keep to NHS alcohol limits, lots of water, sensible about treats, plenty of sleep

Afterwards, maybe you could try a couple of miniFDs (sub-1000) weekly, instead of FDs

Enjoy your holiday, paranormal
and to everyone else travelling anywhere for Easter, or just chilling in a staycation

FD done - total cals just about 550 which isn’t too bad for first day back on it. I was feeling a bit wobbly at one point and had some salt which made me feel a lot better.

Enjoy your holiday paranormal.

Boldygoing well done for keeping on it; I found it tough today. Clocked in at 489, it wasn't easy!

Have a fab holiday paranormal

Thank you so much everyone for all the positive ideas and support! That really helps.

I am keen to get started and I feel like I've been ill forever (I had a cough for a week or two and that obviously laid me low which meant when I picked up the flu bug it got me full force).
Yes to no more snacking - I can happily do 16:8 but it's that 4pm dip that gets me... I need to replace that with more water/fluid I think.

Right. I have a plan.
1 survive easter ( the kids can't eat chocolate, and I'm trying hard to cut down - it sends us all loopy & formed chocolate- like rabbits etc give me a raging headache)
2 do not snack
3 get healthy!
4 do not snack
5 drink plenty
6 do not snack
... think that's everything

Maybe I should go to bed early....

Thank you! You've all cheered me up and helped restore my positivity. Right. I'll keep checking in and see how I go.

Epic run fail today - very heavy rain all afternoon followed by emergency baby sitting meant that even though the rain tailed off at 6.00pm I couldn't get out. DS should have been back by 7.00 but the underground is on a go slow and he's still not back. On top of that, I am ravenous whilst DGD has been tucking into cheesy puffs and pear.

Bah, humbug.

Good plan. Go for it underpants and good luck !

That's not a run fail, granny That's the universe conspiring against you !
Anyway, fasts and runs are not "failed" on these threads, merely postponed

Well done on your FDs, boldly, insert and any other Thursday fasters

I recommend 1 teasp Marmite for you on FDs, boldly say mid-afternoon
It replenishes salt & other minerals
Alternatively, 1 tbsp unsweetened soy sauce
Additionally drink a hot Bovril, only 10 cals, so too few to count as a snack

Adding a and a for MrD for cheese-resistance

FD complete, somewhere around 450 I think, managed just the one meal fine and nice to know I can do that when needed. Fingers crosedmfor tomorrow's weigh in, will update the thread before I head off for my family visit.

Underpants, sounds like s good plan. Don't forget to add don't snack to your list

Well done all you Thursday FD-ers. Kitchen closed today for me on 493.

NSVs for me today: not eating all the carbs in all the world with my mini hangover; not touching a single item from the bag full of Easter treats I brought home from the office that random people kept dropping off today; and managing a mini supermarket shop past hundreds of lovely things I wanted to eat and only buying my low cal dinner.

Hope you all have a lovely Easter weekend!

Well I did it. Kitchen closed at 486. Haven't come in under 500 in a while. Am going to enjoy a restful weekend and next we'll will see how I am feeling. If needs be as suggest BCF I may just do a few mini fasts.

*next week