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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 75: Need to get back on track after Easter eggs ? The Fasting Fairy just sprinkled motivation dust on this thread.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2018 14:14

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2018 19:50

I suggest keeping to one system for at least 2 weeks, preferably 3
One week won't tell you anything much about how it is working

The exception being when you change from sedentary TDEE (which is too low for you) to moderately active TDEE,
when I suggest you do this in steps every week or so over a month.

OP posts:
FannyDaggers · 28/03/2018 21:06

Hello, FD done here closing on 583, I have to admit I have really struggled today, not sure if it is because I’ve only had a 1 day gap between fasts this week? I am going to head off to bed in a minute to stave off any urges to rummage in the cupboards! Hope everyone else has had a good day.

FannyDaggers · 28/03/2018 21:10

And everything on tv seems to be about food - Masterchef, food adverts - have an urge to buy the Morrison’s roulade that’s just been advertised! Blush good thing I’m in my pjs and can’t be bothered to go out!

Paranormalbouquet · 28/03/2018 21:14

DH has come home with a pizza and chips. I've just had an apple to get me to 550calories and am hungry. I may need to kill him!

Stupidly had a 200cal lunch and 300cal dinner- I do better when I have all miso soup/fruit teas in the day and a bigger evening meal.

littleladylawyer · 28/03/2018 21:29

Well done fanny- excellent roulade resistance! I usually fast mon and weds but I actually found a Monday/Tuesday b2b easier than doing the weds fast this week- I think one day in between makes it quite tough.

paranormal that's the worst! Still, you've held out this long and soon the day will be over! I'm like you, so much better having a larger meal in the evening than splitting between lunch and dinner

TalkinPeece · 28/03/2018 21:29

paranormal
Why has he done that ?
Is he built like a distance runner ? Or should he be laying off such junk on a Wednesday night?

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 28/03/2018 21:36

Well done fanny
paranormal is it a bit harsh to say LTB Wink

Fd here and I really struggled. Said 'fuck it' in my head so many times today but somehow managed to scrape in at about 720cals.... not ideal Fd but bugger me how I did not open the wine and scoff all the brownies I'd made is beyond me Hmm I'm still blaming totm...

Think I'm going to aim for Fd on Monday but will see how this weekend goes.

Excellent nsv mrsd

Paranormalbouquet · 28/03/2018 21:44

He is slim. Fairly effortlessly so.

Apparently my plan of scrambled eggs for us both did not appeal to him. I also wanted to use up what's in the fridge as away next week.

Butteredparsn1ps · 28/03/2018 21:47

Glad I found you all! Well done on keeping on all.

I've finished my third B2B today and agree that day 2 is actually easier than day 1.

I also prefer 2 meals so can have 250 Calories for lunch and 350 for dinner and can have a few cups of tea to keep me going. Marmite, as recommended by BCF is a big help when I'm having a slump too.

OohMrDarcy · 28/03/2018 22:07

Excellent food resisting NSVs all around as far as I can tell!

FannyDaggers · 28/03/2018 22:09

OMG paranormal totally justified in killing him, why would he even?

I think I might do an Easter Monday fd as well as we’ll be spending a lot of the day on the road but will see how I get on, night all!

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2018 22:17

Well ddne to all fasters for staying on track today
Especially fanny for learning never to give up: you did so much better - probably 1000+ cals saved - than if you'd succumbed

OP posts:
GrannyPenny · 28/03/2018 22:38

Excellent FDs in the face of adversity Fanny Paranormal and 43 and congratulations on completing your third B2B Parsn1ps .

Looser clothes is a great NSV MrDarcy - well done on resisting the takeaway too.

I was wondering only the other day how you were getting on Teisan - 12kg is an amazing loss.

Happy to report my day has gone better than I thought it would. I may be convinced that B2B is indeed easier than FDs separated by NFD, although not sure how well I'd have managed if I hadn't postponed today's run. Todays B2B FD came in at just over 730 calories. Kitchen closed.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 29/03/2018 07:04

Well done granny on your b2b. So many people saying it's relatively easy, I might give it a try!

1lb off today Smile totm hanging on so I'm pleased with a loss. Not sure what will happen next week after a busy easter weekend Confused good luck to others weighing in today

Paranormalbouquet · 29/03/2018 07:14

Went for a 30 minute brisk walk this morning. Building up to running again. Can’t right now as have had lots of minor ops done in the last few months, each of which means no running for 3-4 weeks after. But I’m so much more motivated to eat well when I exercise that I need to do something. Haven’t weighed myself as only started Monday so don’t want to be disappointed. Will face the scales again when I get back from my holiday.

Good luck to anyone fasting today. I’m going to have a nice breakfast to set me up for a busy day (work meeting, hospital appt and dash to airport!).

OohMrDarcy · 29/03/2018 07:31

Morning all

Another FD here before Easter hits. Fingers are crossed for a good SV tomorrow as I've been very good all week. Was around goal TDEE yesterday without even trying. Only realised when totting up on MFP .

Am not too concerned about Easter as I'm not massively into chocolate anymore, but I am going away to visit family overnight tomorrow. It often ends up quite a boozy affair so will be taking my time and trying to drink far less than normal, even if it doesn't quite hit the NHS guidelines.... Will keep my water bottle close!

43 well done on the SV

Paranormal, well done on the 30 min brisk walk

insertcleverusername · 29/03/2018 07:40

Morning all,

Another FD for me too, dreading it as it's falling on a day I'm working from home, plus DS kept me awake most of the night with his chesty cough and usual toddler sleep issues, so I'm running on little sleep and little food!

Already planned tonight's dinner so I know how many calories I've got to play with during the day; just got to stay strong and remember it's all over after today!

Planning to do a b2b next week as I've got social plans on Monday and Tuesday, and I just can't do a FD on a Friday, so I'll be calling on you b2b-ers for tips!

Good luck to all Thursday fasters Smile

peachypips · 29/03/2018 07:45

Well done Darcy on your NSVs.

Fanny- YES! Everything on social media too! The Marks Easter meal advert is particularly awesome-looking.

Paranormal- LTB def.

Buttered and Granny- I totally agree- I find it so much easier. Always a bit wobbly on the second day when I go to bed though.

Just finished my b2b last night and have broken my fast. One pound off this week.

NoWayNoHow · 29/03/2018 07:58

paranormal I know where I would have put that pizza!!!

Well done all for SVs and NSVs this morning. I drank more wine than I should have/wanted to at the leaving do last night but had food when I got home so am not feeling too dreadful or too hungry (yet!). Still going to persevere with FD today and see how I get on. Will be taking marmite to work for minerals and salt and wishing I could lather it on buttery toast

An Easter Monday FD is a really good idead - will also be travelling so should work.

Good luck all other FDs today!

Pumperthepumper · 29/03/2018 08:43

1.5lbs off this week, taking me to my lowest recorded weight. Party number 1 (first of many OH GOD I HAVE TO LOSE WEIGHT FOR THAT occasions this year) this weekend and I’m 1st 6lbs down since January so will be happy as larry in my new jumpsuit. Still got 1st 2lbs to go BUT STILL.

Brilliant Fortythree you’ll need a new NN soon!

You too Peachy B2Bs are hardcore, well done on your loss!

Congratulations everyone on your NSV, this thread moves so fast it’s hard to remember everyone, but you’re all brilliant Flowers

littleladylawyer · 29/03/2018 09:05

Well done fortythree, darcy, peachy and pumper on your svs and nsvs, and to anyone I've missed- everyone is doing so well!

It's a colleague's leaving drinks and dinner tonight so I got the train in rather than drive, stupidly forgetting that as I worked from home yesterday I would have all my files to lug the 40min uphill walk from station to office. My shoulders are now rather sore, but at least I feel I've earned my Wine later!

Good luck to those fasting today, I'm going to stick to 16:8 and healthy nfds today, tomorrow and Saturday then enjoy the big family Easter lunch and bucket loads of choc on Sunday.

FannyDaggers · 29/03/2018 09:15

Brilliant sv’s and nsv’s all - pumper that’s a great achievement, peachy a fab b2b loss too and you too forty three at totm as well!

Good luck to all fasters today - you can do it!

Hope all goes well at hospital paranormal

Sorry if I’ve missed anyone, scrolling is hard on my tiny phone Grin

I forgot to weigh this morning, so used to doing it on a Friday that I just walked on by this morning so will have to jump on he scales tomorrow morning instead - hopefully will help keep me accountable today as have a meal with friends planned later! Have a good day everyone.

OohMrDarcy · 29/03/2018 09:32

Lots of lovely SVs going on today, well done all!

I've got dinner in the slow cooker - my version of cottage pie (extra lean mince, loads of veg so ratio not the same as normal one - peas, carrots, celery, leek).... My portion tonight will be about 400 cals so have 100 to play with if I need it at lunchtime.

boldlygoingsomewhere · 29/03/2018 09:54

FD for me today - have both my meals planned already so I know exactly what I’m having. Feeling pretty good at the moment. Smile

quackingduck222 · 29/03/2018 10:13

Well done on you b2b Granny. Is that your first?

43 well done on your loss. Loads seem to be doing b2b and finding it quite easy. Maybe give it a try and see how it is for you?

Bouquet that’s great on you ur brisk walk. Hopefully you will be back to your running in no time.

Darcy that’s really great that your not fussed about Easter. I haven’t had a egg in 8 years as I’ve been on some sort of diet. I can this year but I’m not bothered so I’m going to make a cake instead and have something I do fancy.

Good luck for today username.

Peachy fab SV and well done on your B2B

Noway yes that’s a great idea to turn Monday into a FD.

Pumper congrats on your lowest weight. And remember to look at what you’ve achieved rather than how much you have to go. You’ve done amazing and will rock that jumpsuit.