Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2018 22:49

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
NoWayNoHow · 26/03/2018 20:46

Hello newbies and hello fellow FDs! Hope everyone's gotten on ok?

Kitchen closed on 484cals today. Pretty pleased with myself as managed to go to a leaving party and didn't touch a morsel of food or a drop of wine. Watching Masterchef on catch up now (why do we do it to ourselves...!)

BigChocFrenzy · 26/03/2018 20:47

Well done, southeast and good luck for tomorrow

You've come to a lovely supportive group, insert You're among friends Smile
so post whenever you need a helping hand

Exactly, TIP Unhealthy "treats" have become routine, a social change engineered by Big Food to make big profits, not for our benefit
Learn to enjoy non-food treats: a new nail colour, facemask, hairdo, scarf, craft class, book, film, music track etc
and of course new outfits with the smaller clothes sizes you'll need.

OP posts:
HLBug · 26/03/2018 20:48

southeast I bet you find it a breeze - day 2 of B2B always seems easier for me. Famous last words though...I'm also on for a B2B today and tomorrow. Kitchen closed at 610 tonight and I'm feeling very smug after completing my first fasted exercise class this evening. It was a body combat session, so not too high cardio but my goodness I bet my shoulders will be aching tomorrow!

Welcome to the newbies - this thread is a fantastic source of advice. No question is too daft, so ask away. Also keep posting to get you through - we all do it and I promise no one will mind!

BigChocFrenzy · 26/03/2018 20:51

Well done on your FD, noway and the impressive party NSV
Our 5:2 mantra (which lawyer remembered Wink ) can help too:

"communal food has poo crumbs and snot smears"

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 26/03/2018 20:52

A good 1st day, bug Good luck to you too for tomorrow
Sounds like you have b2bs pretty much cracked now

OP posts:
Paranormalbouquet · 26/03/2018 21:00

Thanks everyone for the kind words.

Got home late, just had dinner-leftover roast lamb+Veg curry (made my own paste so know exactly what’s in it) with cauliflower rice. Added to the miso soup from earlier it’s 480 cals. Might have an apple now.

FannyDaggers · 26/03/2018 21:01

Well done to all the other FD’ers and hello to all the new joiners. Kitchen closed here at 522 today, did a 35 minutes run too. I think my next one will be Weds this week due to various Easter related activities!

NoWayNoHow · 26/03/2018 21:31

bcf "poo crumbs" 😂😂😂. Love it.

GrannyPenny · 26/03/2018 22:01

Congratulations on your first 10K Quacking - hope the legs are holding up well today.

Big hello to all returners and newcomers, and Flowers to Paranormal .

So. Snacking. Or not snacking. It. Has. Been. Very. Hard. Today. After my run this evening the urge was so strong I had to take the tube to avoid walking through the various temptations in the shopping centre.

Goals for last two hours of today. No snacking. Book exercise class when midnight booking opens. No snacking. Sleep.

yogi47 · 26/03/2018 22:23

Welcome to everyone new and returning. This thread is a lovely place to be... first b2b today and ended up at 700 - my usual FDs are around 600 (I'm sure I read you can have a bit more if doing b2b). Will try and reduce it down tomorrow though. Feeling very tired today.

HLBug · 26/03/2018 22:27

BCF look! Another example where you tell us things, and a few weeks later it appears in the headlines Smile

Keep breathing people!!

edition.cnn.com/2018/03/26/health/lose-weight-where-does-it-go-partner/index.html

snailhunter · 26/03/2018 22:28

Well done to all fasters and welcome newbies! FD over for me, hooray - kitchen closed at 477. Made beef and orange stir fry with roast beef leftovers: absolutely delicious.

MazDazzle · 26/03/2018 22:38

Started the day with a gym session, then powered on with water and coffee. Dinner was hot smoked salmon fillet with salad.

I was unbelievably bloated at the end of last week. Hoping for a whoosh on the scales tomorrow.

Well done to all of the Monday fasters!

insert you’re giving yourself plenty of time to get into shape for the dress. This thread is great for keeping on the straight and narrow.

slinkyme · 26/03/2018 23:44

Welcome to all the new joiners. The more the merrier. Sorry just tried to do an epic read and catch up on the posts for last couple
Of days.

Para special thoughts for you and the relLy tough time you have had. Hope that it al looks up from here onwards. Well done on first FD back.

FD today for me but almost fell off. What is it about samosas today - Cheshire same as you. My DF got me samosas from my favourite shop yesterday and today they were staring at me. In a moment of madness I gave in and had one at lunchtime. The calories once I looked them up showed there were 250 for one samosa. Thought that's it there is no way I am going to last on such few calories. But then held strong and had a small bowl of soup for dinner and I think have come in at around 580/600 calories. Phew.

Lovely brioche in the fridge currently and looking forward to these for breakfast. Feeling rather ravenous today.

OohMrDarcy · 27/03/2018 07:40

Morning all,

FD here and I've got my water bottle filled and ready.

Welcome to all the newbies, you be come to the right place we are a supportive bunch and there is lots of knowledge here too Smile

yogi47 · 27/03/2018 08:20

Morning darcy - heading in to Day 2 of a B2B - will try to resist anything until
Lunchtime - and then small salmon fillet and rocket salad for lunch, harissa chicken and a few grains of couscous and salad tonight. Meetings this morning so should be ok although one in Starbucks! Herbal tea please, herbal tea please, cappuccino herbal tea please.... Good luck everyone FD today!

Paranormalbouquet · 27/03/2018 08:37

Tell me about back to back fasts? I think I might actually fast tomorrow instead of Thursday as travelling and will have to eat in the airport where filling myself up in less than 500 cals might be hard! Just had my porridge but it occurs to me that today might have been a better fast day and maybe an option for future if it’s not too hard!

boldlygoingsomewhere · 27/03/2018 08:39

purple, I came within 5lbs of goal weight last time so I know I can do it.

BCF, thank you for the tip for 3 mini fast days. That might actually work quite well as I seem to naturally fall into a pattern of zigzagging my calories.

snailhunter · 27/03/2018 08:58

Truly there is nothing nicer in the world than breakfast after a fast day. (With apologies to all the fasters and B2Bers today!) I really feel like I appreciate food so much more on this WOE.

paranormal, welcome and my sympathies to you: what a horrible time you've had. I don't do B2Bs because I know I would just be rubbish at them but there are lots of people here who have done them very successfully. I think the limit is slightly higher on B2Bs - 650 cals for each, I remember reading, but no doubt BCF will be along soon to clarify.

CheshireSplat · 27/03/2018 09:09

yogi I'm with you on a B2B. I'm feeling ok this morning. Slept badly but DH had a nightmare day yesterday so I was worried about him. Also sooooo thirsty after yesterday's FD. MFP was shouting at me about my bought soup. There were 2.5 g of salt in it (500 ml). (Salt, not sodium.) Adults can have 6 g a day but as I had soy sauce in the evening I probably had a day's worth of salt but in 1/4 of the calories. Have had about 3 pints of water already today. Am going to batch cook and freeze soup rstehr than buying ready made and I'm having a mushroom omlette for tea, so no salt! BCF, any advice about salt? DH and I eat very little pre-prepared food and very little processed pork, so I don't eat much salt as a rule.

Bouquet back 2 back fast days are 2 FDs in a row, but you can have up to 650 cals each day rather than 500. The problem i have found is when you don't do the second one but have had 650 on day 1.... A few of us find they work well, because we aren't so hungry when we wake on day 2 so we can power through til lunch.

MazDazzle · 27/03/2018 09:30

I’m up 3lbs in less than a week.

Waiting patiently for the post totm whoosh!

quackingduck222 · 27/03/2018 09:40

Hello to all the newbies. And Flowers to paranormal. I’m so sad to hear what you’ve been through.

Good luck to all the hardcore B2Bers. You lot absolutely rock!

Maz - TOTM is a PITA. Messed up my readings last week. I have the coil so don’t actually get TOTM but get all the symptoms. Just push through even if you do a FD during the scales may not change but should could off after.

Thanks Granny, your doing fantastic with the no snacking and all these classes.

Well done Daggers on your great FD & run.

littleladylawyer · 27/03/2018 10:05

I'm feeling good today and have decided to join yogi and cheshire and go for my first ever b2b. Now it's written down here I'll have to stick to it!

Have a 200cal chicken salad for lunch then a big veggie and chicken stir fry with slim noodles for supper later. Lots of meetings today so hopefully it will go quickly.

NoWayNoHow · 27/03/2018 11:07

Wow, well done all you B2Bs! One day I think I may try it... Not today, though - date night tonight with DH so out for a Lebanese. No baklawa for me!!

snail so with you on post-FD breakfast. Best thing ever. Avo on sourdough for me this morning - how very hipster! Grin

New posts on this thread. Refresh page