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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2018 22:49

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
quackingduck222 · 04/03/2018 18:07

Talkin - that’s really interesting. Blimey going from 30 to 18 is absolutely out of this world.

quackingduck222 · 04/03/2018 18:09

Radical - wow that is bloody fantastic. Well done!

WellHurrahAndHuzzah · 04/03/2018 19:08

Hello everyone! Is it ok if I join? Have done 5:2 a few years ago with great success and have now fallen off the wagon, would really like to get started again! I reckon I have around 11lbs to lose.

Radicalbell · 04/03/2018 19:08

Many thanks BCF and Quacking. I've still got some way to go (especially around tummy) but am slowly getting there. I've been so inspired by your stories on these threads as well. You've shown us that this is a sustainable lifestyle.

I should say I've started exercising over the last Month as well - the occasional kettle bell workout (hence the name!) and some yoga and barre workouts too. My downfall has always been portion sizes and a love of carbs - rice and pasta especially. The aim is to be more mindful of what I put in my mouth :-).

Thank you again for this wonderful resource.

littleladylawyer · 04/03/2018 19:12

Hi all, hope you've had lovely weekends.

I've just had a lovely roast pork dinner, although skipped the potatoes and yorkies as the meat, cauli cheese and veg was filling enough! I'm going to have a small bowl of halo top ice cream for pud- yum!

I've had a bit of an nsv this weekend, as other than 2 glasses of prosecco on Friday I've not drunk. Usually I would have a few glasses of wine on Saturday and Sunday, but I think this was contributing to the urge to binge on a weekend, as well as being empty calories. I think I'm going to try cutting back for a while, until I feel that I'm listening to my actual hunger levels rather than getting a bit tipsy and stuffing my face! Nights out excepted of course, can't be a complete Halo!

WellHurrahAndHuzzah · 04/03/2018 19:18

Usually have a bevvie or two on a Sunday night and this thread has inspired me to be 'good' - thank you!

BigChocFrenzy · 04/03/2018 19:36

Well done on your alcohol NSV, lawyer
Learning moderation, NHS alcohol limits, is important for longterm health
You are right that having a few glasses, rather than just one, often leads to poor decisions about food, too.

Fancy up your water instead: Fill a pretty glass with still water, ice & a slice of fruit. Add a straw and slurp away Smile

Welcome, Huzzah Smile
Good luck on your 1st FD - will that be tomorrow ?

As an experienced faster, you'll soon be back in the fasting swing
Main tips we've learned for NFDs, that might be new since you last did 5:2, are in my post to radical

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 04/03/2018 19:38

Radical - honestly re portion size it will come. Give it some time and it should naturally reduce as you get used to fasting. It’s great for shrinking your stomach.

I was a huge eater before (blame slimming world and there eat as much as you want, I did) I could honestly eat most blokes under the table. I can’t now. I pushed myself just before Xmas at a all you can eat. It was so bad it hurt, and I swore I wouldn’t do that again.

Well done little lady, that’s fantastic. You may well find cutting back and the fasting means it goes to your head quicker. = cheaper nights out Grin

Hello hurrah, it’s great your back on the fasting wagon. And that’s a good decision about the tipple tonight.

JustTerfingAlong1 · 04/03/2018 20:06

I'm having another attempt at a FD tomorrow I think - although I've accidentally lost 2lbs this week so down to 8 stone 11. I think it was mostly water though as my monthly cycle might be starting to return at long last (Ds is 18 months but feeds loads still day and night).
I still want to do FD for the health benefits but might just do one this week instead of 2.

purpleviolet1 · 04/03/2018 20:50

Love this thread! ❤️

Will be checking in for a FD tomorrow.. whose with me??

Quacking love that you are still posting despite being in maintenance. Your experience / support is invaluable!

Iamblossom · 04/03/2018 20:52

I'm in purple

OohMrDarcy · 04/03/2018 21:09

Evening all,

Had a fabulous roast with roasties and yorkies etc, but also with LOADS of veg - spring greens, carrots, swede mash, green beans, parsnips. Was delicious, and I don't feel even slightly guilty. Within TDEE and LOADS of water drunk today - so feel nicely prepared for FD tomorrow. I've got to go to a factory site tomorrow, so I'm planning various lunch options. If the worst comes to the worst I'll stick to tea and water and have a big dinner before dancing.

Radical - welcome and a big well done on SV and NSVs

Welcome Huzzah - I'm a returner also ,first FD is tomorrow for me.

Yay for the alcohol NSV lawyer - I've not drunk at all this weekend either. I'm not a big drinker often anyway, but knowing I have a FD coming tomorrow put me off a small glass of wine with my roast.

quackingduck222 · 04/03/2018 21:24

Purple this thread has been a absolute lifeline for me. I’ve learnt in the past if I’m not posting I’ve gone off on a binge.

A few months back I had a few bad days, thought il get back on the fasting then come back with my tail between my legs. Tried for over a week every day with the intention of fasting and couldn’t. As soon as I came back and said I’m on a FD I managed it no problem.

It’s like it keeps me accountable for my actions.

Darcy that sounds so nice, Not had a roast this week so drooling.

Blue how’s your B2B going?

BlueBelle123 · 04/03/2018 21:54

B2B done and dusted at 620 actually found it alright but we will see what the scales say tomorrow!

HLBug · 04/03/2018 22:06

Well done blue!

Good luck for your first (ish) FD tomorrow MrDarcy and good luck also to the rest of the Monday FD Crew.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/03/2018 22:14

Excellent b2b, blue On a weekend too, which usually helps.

Well done on your SV justterfing Good start
Looks like 5:2 is releasing some retained water, maybe trimming a little fat
Many folk find their Happy Weight on 5:2 is lower than they originally thought

I suggest you decide which maintenance system is sustainable for you longterm
If you want the possible health benefits of fasting, then if you go down to 6:1, I recommend you also do daily 16:8 or 14:10

Good luck on your FD tomorrow , MrD
You had a healthy NFD today, so just plan your menu for tomorrow, stick to it - and take lots of water with you

OP posts:
slinkyme · 04/03/2018 22:49

Not had a chance to catch up on the messages over the weekend. Have had a NFD weekended. Some good some bad. Had celebrations and family moments and also emotional turmoil. Am nursing a nice glass of Bordeaux currently. Will definitely be a FD tomorrow.

This thread(s) is invaluable and al of you lovely people who take the time to post about your successes and your challenges - it is very motivating and comforting. Keep
It coming. Very much agree that posting here helps to keep on the FD train.

Well done Blue in the B2B fast.

OohMrDarcy · 05/03/2018 07:01

B2b and on a weekend too... get you blue! Well done Smile

Well I'm up and ready to start my FD. I've weighed in and I'm 3lb down already since Friday when I started trying to eat better and drink more again... I'm pretty sure that is all water as was barely drinking for a while, but still a fab motivator before the FD! so I'm sat in bed, plugging away and the nerves have gone and I'm just excited!

Good luck to all the other Monday fasters!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 05/03/2018 07:19

Morning all, FD here too. Had a pretty good weekend with no snacking at all bit did give in to a glass of prosecco and 2 g&ts but all within tdee Smile going to skip breakfast and have a salad bowl from subway for lunch, apparently a chicken salad with onion dressing is 150cals?

Good luck to Monday fasters...

snailhunter · 05/03/2018 07:37

Morning all, and how lovely to read success stories. I was planning my usual Mon FD but have woken up with sore throat and headache and feeling generally rubbish. Feels like an FD would be bad idea. Am I right? Feel weirdly guilty about not having one!

quackingduck222 · 05/03/2018 07:52

Well done everyone on your weekends. And blue your so hardcore.

Snail - best to purspone if your not feeling great.

Maintenance week 4 and a lb up from target. Hmm been all over the place this week weight wise.
But the fact I’m still here still doing it is making me really happy.

I’m going to calculate what I am planning for tea to see if I can do a FD today

OohMrDarcy · 05/03/2018 08:14

Snail - definitely no FD if you're feeling poorly!

purpleviolet1 · 05/03/2018 08:47

Checking in for FD...

Agree posting keeps us accountable!

Feel better soon snail.

Quacking - you look incredibly lean in your photos you are my inspiration.

BlueBelle123 · 05/03/2018 09:07

Well I can definitely report if you fall off the wagon gaining 4lbsBlush but get right back on with a b2b you cal lose 4lbsGrin so pleased to have stayed the same. It was actually coming on here and reading all your posts that made me do the b2b, didn't even cross my mind before logging on so I think thats a NSV for everyone!!

Well done on your loss OohMrDarcy you will be fine today as you know it works, you will soon be back in the swing of things and good luck to all the other Monday fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 05/03/2018 09:13

Good luck, Monday fasters Smile

snail Best not have an FD if you feel poorly
Instead, have a healthy NFD, with no junk or booze, but plenty of water and veg

Well done on your SV, MrD
That shows the difference healthier habits make, even without fasting

duck It's natural to fluctuate a few lb within a Happy Weight range.
Remember that in your case, with your v low waist, your "goal" is at the lowest end of your range. Hence "goal+5lb" is a sensible upper limit.
Currently seems like you would maintain well with 6:1, or 13:1 sometimes.

43 Chicken salad with onion dressing can also be 175 or 250 cals, depending on type of chicken, so maybe check that
www.myfitnesspal.com/food/calories/subway-sweet-onion-chicken-teriyaki-chopped-salad-w-sweet-onion-sauce-per-website-123283408
www.myfitnesspal.com/food/calories/subway-oven-roasted-chicken-salad-with-veggies-and-sweet-onion-sauce-9688611

OP posts: