Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2018 22:49

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
purpleviolet1 · 25/03/2018 19:31

That's great quacking really pleased for you. You completed it ! You should be very proud

I would like my lowest to be 8 stone. I used to fluctuate between 8-8.5 stone and I liked that weight.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2018 19:48

Congrats on a brilliant run NSV, duck
Now rest those feet for a few days without running - and have a full rest day tomorrow with no exercise

Very impressive veg garden TIP and your work on it

Well done on your size 10 NSV, purple
Stay focused and you'll reach your Happy Weight

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2018 19:50

Kitchen closed and FD nailed:
bolied eggs with salad, plus a small bowl of oat porridge with chia seeds

Anyone else today ?

OP posts:
southeastlondonmum · 25/03/2018 20:12

Hello all,
Checking ahead of my two back to backs, Monday and Tuesday. I'm aiming for under 700 but if I find it too hard will do a mini on Tuesday instead

quackingduck222 · 25/03/2018 20:12

Purple that sounds like a plan. You sound very motivated so that is fantastic.

BCF - no I promise. I’m going to take the week off as it’s half term.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2018 20:19

That's a sensible plan, southeast in case the b2b is too tough

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 25/03/2018 20:25

I'm very jealous tip it sounds awesome. ... but it's a part time job Shock you must get so much satisfaction from it though, especially when you get to eat it all! This is something I aspire to Grin

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 25/03/2018 20:32

Hello, can I please join and ask a few questions??

Is it useful to have a 5:2 book?
I have a recipe book but I’m notoriously bad at planning and cooking a savoury recipe...
would it be possible to do a fast day with a protein shake around lunch time /when I get hungry and then a small evening meal?

I need to shift a fair bit (around 20kgs) and I have done 5:2 before and lost about 4kg quite easily. I’m really uncomfortable at the moment and calorie counting 24/7 makes me miserable and obsess about food. I find 5:2 does the opposite and frees me from “thinking” about food IYSWIM.
Smile

quackingduck222 · 25/03/2018 20:44

Hello NoUnderpants, welcome.

The 5:2 book is a very good read, I wouldn’t say you need it to do 5:2 but it is very inspiring. If you haven’t seen the original horizon documentary. BCF links it in the opening post. Watch it, it’s absolutely fantastic.

Of course you can have a protein shake in the day. I do occasionally on FDs and NFDs if I can’t be bothered making something. It’s just handy to have.
That’s the beauty of 5:2 you can use your calories how you want. It’s so flexible.

Calorie counting sucks, been there done that and it makes me miserable especially when I’ve done the low fat 1200 cal approach.

Totally agree about being free of thinking of food. You just don’t on this way of life. It’s awesome.

And don’t worry about how much you have to loose. Just take it day by day and lb by lb and learn some good habits along the way that will set you up for life.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2018 20:55

Welcome, underpants Smile and ask all you want

Most folk can lose without calorie counting on NFDs if they cut out snacking between meals and stay within NHS alcohol guidelines

No need to buy any books.
All you need to know is in the "How to Start" section of the OP, with links underneath to lots of suitable FD recipes.

Most of us eat proper food on FDs, rather than shakes, as it's more filling.
However, do what you find easiest
You might find it convenient to buy say a heathy salad or soup for lunch and a healthy ready meal for supper, since they have the calories on.

FYI, my usual FD menu - to fit in with training:
lunch: salad garnished with balsamic vinegar and a drizzle of olive oil, plus a choice of salmon fillet / steak strips / boiled eggs
Supper: a small tub of unflavoured Skyr protein yoghurt plus strawberries or melon chunks.

OP posts:
NoUnderpantsinSpace · 25/03/2018 20:59

Thanks quacking! I will try and watch the documentary, I’m in Germany but do have a VPN.

I’m kind of excited to start. TDEE sorted. fast days...l well I have a pretty rotten cold at the moment - slowly recovering. So I’ll see how I go, otherwise I would say “tomorrow”

If any can recommend a tasty protein shake that would be great. I’ve got a sample box of different flavours to try from “Myprotein” to see how I get on with them... it might take me a while to get through them all 😄

NoUnderpantsinSpace · 25/03/2018 21:02

Thanks BCF! I really like skyr yogs, that’s a great idea! Thank you!

I’ve been trying to track calories and macros and realise that my diet is generally carb heavy and protein light. I’m trying to change that but I’m not a big meat eater... and I’m really bad at planning (ADHD diagnosis last year... I finally understand myself!) Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2018 21:55

underpants I'm in Germany too, Smile in Hessen
Any decent low carb shake with high % protein and 3g or less sugar per 100g

High quality brands: Scitec Nutrition, Weider. Quest
e.g. Scitec Nutrition white chocolate or banana are delic
Quest has stevia as a sweetener and their peanut butter flavour is good.

I make shakes with water and unsweetened almond or cashew milk, with a few berries to boost nutritional value

Sometimes I might have an Atkins RTD shake carton; the mocha latte is delic, better than a normal latte

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2018 21:56

Do make sure any yoghurt is "natural" i.e. unsweetened
Even fruit yoghurt always has added sugar / fructose / dextrose etc in some hidden form

OP posts:
yogi47 · 26/03/2018 07:00

Well done Duck and Purple - amazing achievements. I'm hoping to start running again soon. I'm 3 months post a major op on my spine so a little nervous. I've been told that I will be able to by consultant. Any tips/ favourite Aps to slowly get back into it?

So SouthEast I'm with you so good luck. Heading into back to back fast days for Monday and Tuesday. I have them planned... it's the only way I can fit them in this week due to nights out and Easter. To be fair feel I've eaten enough over the weekend to survive the rest of the month so I think it's damage limitation this week! That for me will be a NSV this week! Wink

snailhunter · 26/03/2018 08:07

Congrats quacking and purple! I’m checking in for my usual Monday FD today. Lovely day here which always helps!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/03/2018 08:17

Fd here too although cake morning at eork today so I was tempted to change Fd days but either easter etc it wold mean a b2b tomorrow and weds and I don't think I could hack that! Good luck anyone else fasting today and welcome nounderpants

hollolew2 · 26/03/2018 08:28

Marking my spot for my first fast day in a while . Good luck everyone whose fasting today 🙂🙂🙂

littleladylawyer · 26/03/2018 09:09

Morning all, have just caught up.

Wow quacking well done- I hope you're not feeling too stiff today.

purple great nsv, you'll be down to the 8s in no time.

Have new oven being installed on Saturday. I bought a nice size 8 ted baker dress for the wedding in 3 weeks- it's very fitted round the waist which is my problem area so I'm going to try to be fairly strict and avoid junk and white carbs until then- lots of veg and protein and low gi to get rid of any bloat.

Fd today- ate loads over the weekend so feel like I need it!

HLBug · 26/03/2018 09:44

Morning all. Going for a Monday / Tuesday B2B this week and may attempt an extra Mini towards the end of the week to prepare for Easter madness.

Today will be a big lunch and smaller dinner. Gym class this evening. Scrambled eggs and smoked salmon for lunch then some cheese and apple slices for dinner. Yum.

Tomorrow I have an evening event with work so will again go for a bigger lunch to see me through.

It's a glorious sunny day here, albeit still a fair chill in the air. Good luck everyone else fasting today Brew

CheshireSplat · 26/03/2018 10:10

Didn't get to my sub-11 stone goal this morning, but it was a conscious decision... Went to a family christening yesterday which was lovely, and there. Were. The. Most. Magnificent. Samosas. Hand made and massive. They must have been about 500 calories each. And I had 2. (And some other naughty bits.) But had made some good decisions too like skipping breakfast. I genuinely weighed up hitting my target today versus eating the samosas and decided the target could wait a week. Those type of samosas just aren't available where I live.

On the plus point i stayed the same and feel fat and heavy this morning at 11 stone 0 3/4 whereas a few weeks ago that would've felt light so I'm resetting the new normal. Like you littlelady I'm ready to fast today. But unlike you nowhere near size 8!!!

B2B today and tomorrow for me. And then it's the blinking school holidays again and we're off to France. Grrrr! However, we are self-catering so no real excuses. I'm tempted to do 2 FDs whilst away because I haven't really got back on the FD train since I fell off it when away at half term.

Have taken BCF's advice to me to heart. I need to sort out my NFDs and learn to eat less on them. And my alcohol is definitely more than 10% of my calories so I'll start measuring that (not when I'm in France!!) and then I can work on that.

Good luck all fasters today.

quackingduck222 · 26/03/2018 10:13

Yogi - I still like the C25k app. I used that the beginning of this year to get me started again. You could just start it from where you feel comfortable.

Little Lady - glad you’ve got the oven sorted. And that you found a fabulous dress. 3 weeks a couple of good FDs should see you right. If I have a night out (rare) that I want to look my best for I find fasting the day prior helps massively.

Bug - good luck on your back to back.

Good luck to all fasters today.

OohMrDarcy · 26/03/2018 10:19

Morning all,

Health NFD here today. Stayed under TDEE rest of the weekend so no damage on the scales today.

FD are tomorrow and Thursday.

Well done on the run Quacking - thats fab!

Oh to be a size 10 once more purple, well done you!

Paranormalbouquet · 26/03/2018 10:28

Hi everyone, I was on here for a while last year and was doing well but became pregnant and miscarried. And then pregnant again and miscarried again. And a third time. Which has all lead to a lot of comfort eating!

Looks like I’ll need surgery to ttc again so am trying to be positive and start fasting again this week to get as healthy as normal possible. Will do as before, Monday and Thursday fast days. On holidays from Thursday this week to Friday after easter so may need to move things around (fasting on travel days rather than days with family I think, or 16:8 for the week). This week Thursday should be fine as working all day and travelling in the evening.

Going back to my previous plan as it worked well before- no breakfast, miso soup lunch and a low carb dinner. Have made a very vegetable heavy curry with some leftover roast lamb to eat this evening (around 450 cals) with some cauliflower rice. So daily total will be less than 600.

HLBug · 26/03/2018 10:41

paranormal I remember your name from last year - so sorry to hear you've been having a horror of a time. Your plan to get as healthy as you can sounds great - I have a friend who went through something similar to you and just last week delivered a lovely baby boy. So, I'm wishing you all the best. We're all here for our own reasons and, as you know, this thread is great for that extra bit of support when you're finding things tough.

Swipe left for the next trending thread