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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2018 22:49

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
quackingduck222 · 05/03/2018 09:47

Well done blue that’s fantastic news.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 05/03/2018 09:47

thanks BCF I've just gone onto their website for the nutritional values and found this www.subway.com/en-gb/menunutrition/menu/product?ProductId=4988&MenuCategoryId=437 where you can add exactly what you want, mine is coming out as 174 cals so not bad for a FD lunch.

Well done on STS Blue, I'm in awe that you did a B2B on a weekend!!!

peachypips · 05/03/2018 10:20

Just checking in on new thread- went awol over weekend as usual!

NFD tomorrow but b2b Tues and Wed.

Will come back and RTFT later- just wanted to check in quickly as am at work.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/03/2018 10:26

Well done on dropping that 4lb, blue
Shows again that an FD or b2b right after a feast or binge can get you tight back on track

OP posts:
Iamblossom · 05/03/2018 11:35

Morning all.

FD for me. Weighed in at 8 13 this morning so am 4 pounds up from my lightest weight achieved this time round on 5:2 but pretty relaxed about that as I know I can control it with a couple of good fds and quite frankly with what I have eaten and drunk over the last 5 days it's a miracle I am under 9!

have had a water cracker and a hard boiled egg so far and ran (a very slow) 8km this morning.

Got an hour's yoga 121 at 12, so will have the same again when I get home and maybe some miso soup. Prawns of some description this evening probably with salad just cos I can't think of anything else as low calorie as that....

Iamblossom · 05/03/2018 11:36

btw I am another one who changed what their happy weight was since doing 5:2 - never got below 9 stone exercising like a demon or doing calorie counting or Atkins

OohMrDarcy · 05/03/2018 12:12

Afternoon all

Blue -fab news on dropping that 4lb! Well done!

Blossom - hi! Good luck on FD

Lunchtime here and I'm on my 2nd litre of water and feeling fine... just watched a colleague eat a big pasta bowl and didn't feel jealous at all!

Pumperthepumper · 05/03/2018 12:55

Afternoon all, just checking in to the new thread, FD here for me. So cold today though ❄️

slinkyme · 05/03/2018 14:17

FD here too. So far so good. Surviving on tea and coffee. May have a miso soup after my next meeting. Have spotted that 2 heck chicken chipolatas (which I spotted in the fridge) are only 99 cals. May need to build this into tonight's dinner. Not paying attention to the scales today as TOTM week and lots of bloating. Plus a 1.4 kg jump can't be just all the yummy thai curry and cake that I had yesterday.

quackingduck222 · 05/03/2018 14:55

Slinky I’m having turkey sausages on my FD tea tonight with scrambled egg, tomatoes and mushrooms yum and so filling too.

Darcy blimey that’s a lot of water.

Radicalbell · 05/03/2018 15:43

Well done all Mon fastest, not too long to go now....

FD for me too and is also one of my days at home with my toddler. Kept busy in the morning and we both had a small lentil soup for lunch (he had cheese on toast too, did best not to steal a slice!). Dinner will be sausage casserole for him & DH and veggie sausage omelette for me.

We just baked a cake as well .... like to torture myself ;-).

macnab · 05/03/2018 16:19

Good afternoon everyone, I'd like to join for the moral support please!

I'm not hugely overweight, but at 5'2" any extra weight really shows. Plus in my mid-40s I find that I really can't eat all that I used to without the consequences. Having spent the last number of days holed up at home thanks to the beast from the east, I felt like a big slobby blobby mess. So, I decided to give this 5:2 way of eating a go.

I don't have a starting weight, or end goal, as we don't have scales at home. I do however have a full wardrobe of clothes that at the moment I can only fit into half of. I find I'm wearing the same two pairs of trousers to work for the last year Blush So I'm going to use my clothes as a way of measuring how well I'm doing.

I started today, have had a few herbal teas and a black coffee, plus some water. At around 2pm I had a cup-a-soup. I plan to have porridge later this evening. I'd rather save up all calories to eat in one go than try to work out teeny meals or snacks throughout the day. So far it's not been too bad. I reckon I've eaten so much in the last week that my body could go without food for several days - it's habit for me more than anything else. I intend to have more imaginative FD meals from now on, just that where I am there's still very little in the shops!

JustTerfingAlong1 · 05/03/2018 16:48

Urgh this FD is making me feel horrible. I'm so short tempered, feel drained, shaky. I don't think full on fDs are for me.
I've had 450 calories so far but I've been up since 5am with the toddler, and he has fed loads today. Tried to do 30ds and had to give up.

Do other people get like this? Would doing 16:8 or 14:10 give me the health benefits on their own? I don't need to lose any, just keep my chocolate habit / sugar addiction in check.

slinkyme · 05/03/2018 16:51

Duck and Radical looks like sausages are popular today. How much is that in calories duck?

slinkyme · 05/03/2018 16:52

Macnab welcome and well done for throwing yourself into your first FD. Clothes fit is probably a better way of checking progress than scales so you are on the right path. Sounds like you have today sussed.

slinkyme · 05/03/2018 16:54

Just no wonder if you have been up since 5am. Definitely have days like this and this is without a toddlers waking me up so a lot of respect for you especially when you have tried to incorporate exercise too. If you don't need to lose weight then I would think a 16:8 would be good for you. It will give you the health benefits but make this WOL more sustainable.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 05/03/2018 17:40

Oh dear terf that's not great, I'm sure bcf can advise you re: health benefits, but it sounds like today is too difficult to fast? I

Any inspiration re: fd meal for around 250cals incorporating prawns, all I can think of I'm dreaming of is prawn risotto Blush that's for tomorrow maybe

OohMrDarcy · 05/03/2018 17:51

Evening all, have survived a day in an industrial bakery, surrounded by the smell of bread without a single calorie passing my lips! I didn't feel like I was missing out either Smile

Just cooking my dinner now, and then relaxing for a short while before dancing. Have kept some calories spare for if needed to get me through but at the moment I feel fine.

Well done to everyone else fasting, Terf maybe up the calls to 800 to see how you do? I always need to drink lots when fasting so make sure you're getting enough

quackingduck222 · 05/03/2018 17:59

JustTerfing - how about doing 16:8 with 800 cal fast days for now? Let your body adjust then try lowering the cals once your used to it.
It’s bloody hard at first but you do adjust.

Slinky 3 turkey sausages, 3 eggs, mushrooms and tomatoes would normally be about 500 cals depending on what brands your using. I’m gonna add milk, 1/2 tin of beans and some gerkins to bump me up to 800. (I know that’s random btw, but most of my meals contain gherkins as I’ve just found them and love um)

TalkinPeace · 05/03/2018 18:23

Welcome macnab
Using clothes to decide your happy size is an EXCELLENT method
because then you are worrying about how you FEEL rather than a random number.

terf
Full on fasting does not suit everybody.
If its making you feel really rough, do 16:8 and let your system settle for a while.

quackingduck222 · 05/03/2018 18:26

Just - ignore my post, if your not looking to loose than yes 16:8 would be perfect for you, still intermittent fasting and your limiting your eating window without the FDs. Sounds like atm your doing too much in one go.

quackingduck222 · 05/03/2018 18:28

43 - I love prawns on a skewer with a tiny tiny drizzle of olive oil with chili flakes and a salad. Beautiful done on the bbq as well.

JustTerfingAlong1 · 05/03/2018 18:51

Thanks everyone. Have had a dinner with carbs in (was planning to skip the carbs) and feeling a bit better. Now had 700 calories. According to my Fitbit I've burned 2020 calories today so far not including breastfeeding. Normally it totals the day at 2400 approx, not including breastfeeding, so maybe I'm just too active for a 500 cal FD? I walk everywhere - toddler group, shops, school run, preschool run, park etc, and usually fit in 15-30 minutes of HIIT as well.
The fasting and no snacking rules are really helping my sugar habit though, so I'm winning there regardless Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 05/03/2018 18:53

Thanks quacking they are tiny prawns so I've opted for a stir fry instead. .. will keep skewers in mind for nfd though when I can get some big uns Grin

JustTerfingAlong1 · 05/03/2018 18:56

I used to waitress as a student, and one of the most popular starters was prawns fried with garlic and chilli, with a drizzle of honey and lemon juice, served with salad and avocados. Yum :)