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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 74: If you only enjoy long walks when they’re taken by people who annoy you, don‘t worry: Fasting is a far more efficient way to burn fat

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2018 22:49

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

5:2 FD Recipe Thread
Post your own too !

5:2 / IF Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis which explains the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a strict fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
peachypips · 07/03/2018 07:48

Morning all. Good FD yesterday although finished at 600 due to unforeseen amount of calories in balsamic- BEWARE!! Well done to other fasters yesterday esp those who fasted for the first time.

Parsnips- I hate cauli rice too- no idea why people rave about it! I'd rather just have it in its virgin form.

NFD today.

quackingduck222 · 07/03/2018 08:14

Lots of very successful fasts yesterday well done!

BCF - he only sees my evening meals and as I naturally fill my plate on FDs with lots of veg he can’t tell the difference between a FD and a NFD.

I’ve stabilized again this week a bit over happy weight but would rather it stayed the same then constantly up and down like last week.

How is your ankle recovery going?

littleladylawyer · 07/03/2018 08:26

Well done to all the Tuesday fasters.

I had a very bad nfd yesterday. Started with the hotel breakfast buffet and then the lunch buffet and then curry and chocolates/ biscuits. Feel disappointed in myself but trying to look at why I ate so much and how I can avoid it happening again. I definitely struggle at events like buffets where I'm not in control of the food and seem to think 'fuck it, I'll eat it all while it's here', as I wouldn't buy that sort of food myself.

Fasting today today to try to undo some of the damage, and going to go shopping this evening and stock the fridge with lovely nutritious veg and protein and beans!

snailhunter · 07/03/2018 09:17

Wow, well done all the fasters!

lawyer Don't beat yourself up over one day. It's done! I think it's really important that you've started to recognise where your trigger points are. Once you've done that, you can plan ahead to try and do things differently next time. I know TV in the evenings is a big snacky trigger for me so I either have a hot drink instead which makes me feel like I'm having something (and herbal tea is disgusting with biscuits), or I do something with my hands, like crochet, which really distracts me properly.

Checking in for FD today. Burning with positivity and righteous anger here as my closest family member who I have supported through much horrible shit has finally decided to move out of the house she shares with her abusive partner (source of said horrible shit), take their child with her, and rent a flat while starting proceedings to force the sale of their house. This is such a huge deal I can't even begin to describe how it feels. He's managed to convince her that she is a terrible person and I'm sure that if she just has her own space for a while she will start to see just how wrong she is. But now I have to be totally on the ball and find flat and sort viewings and all that stuff. I AM SO ON IT THIS MORNING. Oooh, felt good to get all that out.

OohMrDarcy · 07/03/2018 09:20

Morning all,

Another NFD here, preparing for FD tomorrow. DS has decided we are having Sausage and mash for dinner tonight - so will make sure there is plenty of veg in that.

Had a croissant for breakfast today. Not the healthiest, but on the good side - had put two on my plate, and didn't need or want the second one so didn't eat it.

Lawyer - I can be a bit like that with buffets / free bars... treat them like an all you can eat challenge for some reason! When 5:2 was going well I'd have to plan for them and drink lots before heading in so I didn't feel particularly hungry.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 07/03/2018 09:49

well done all the Tuesday fasters, and well done Mr Darcy for only eating 1 croissant, not sure i'd be so restrained! Yes, don't dwell on it lawyer but have a successful FD today and forget about it. Keep that fire snail and good luck to your family member for leaving the abusive shit!

NFD today and I've moved into a new office and the other person has kindly left cake on my desk Cake so i'm doing my hardest to ignore it for now and stick to my no snack rule and eat it after my lunch.

Hope everyone has a good day Grin

littleladylawyer · 07/03/2018 10:10

Thanks for the advice and encouragement snail, mrdarcy and fortythree- it's so nice having people like you to support me, and what previously would have turned into a bingey week will now be relegated to the past with better choices moving forwards!

Thats such good news snail, your support has obviously made a significant contribution to her decision- you should be very proud Smile

MazDazzle · 07/03/2018 10:14

Well done for supporting your friend snail. Good luck with the flat hunting.

Thank you all for your sympathy. We really can’t complain as they had a long life, but it’s still emotionally draining for the family. I was supposed to speak at the funeral, but thankfully I asked someone else to do it. Thank goodness - I was up the night before with a teething baby and my middle DC was vomiting! Thankfully, we’re past the worst and DH is home on Tuesday.

I’ve been fasting for over 5 years and I’ve only just discovered how low cal pickled onions are! They’ll be livening up every FD from now on. Grin

purpleviolet1 · 07/03/2018 10:33

Morning all,

Had a successful FD yesterday Smile not eaten anything yet today.

If I skip breakfast everyday and have lunch and /or dinner on FD, and lunch and dinner on NFD I find it's easiest. But I do find I'm hungry on morning after FD 🤔 if i have breakfast, my tummy rumbles at the same time everyday

purpleviolet1 · 07/03/2018 10:34

Snail well done for helping , your contribution will have made a difference Grin hope she manages to make a new life for herself now

purpleviolet1 · 07/03/2018 10:39

Maz 💐

BigChocFrenzy · 07/03/2018 10:52

snail That's great that your family member has left her abuser and that you are so supportive.
You sound very positive about everything today

duck a few lb fluctuation is very normal, especially in the first few months of maintenance
That's why we have a Happy range rather than Happy weight.
You know the lowest weight you should be, so the Happy range is within that and 5 lb higher

lawyer "All you can eat" buffets can be an unhealthy minefield, so don't beat yourself up.

My tactics:

  • Choose protein & veg / salad
  • Decide in advance what you will have, don't deviate, don' eat mindlessly
  • Fill one plate only, with the choicest bits, no second plate unless it is fruit.
  • If it's an NFD, maximum ONE glass wine. Drink lots of water, not juice or fizz
  • NO: deep-fried or sugary food, junky carbs - including fries, pies, pizza, crisps, biscuits, cake, twiglets etc -, no creamy / oily sauces or dips
OP posts:
snailhunter · 07/03/2018 12:11

Thank you guys, it is lovely to know that some awesome women are cheering us on! Onwards and upwards for all of us.

FarTooFat · 07/03/2018 16:25

Afternoon all - I'm checking back in after not being able to get online for a few days. After my initial moaning that I hadn't lost any weight after three weeks (well, 6 FDs), I'm excited that the scales are now showing a loss of 2 pounds. That's come at the official end of three weeks - i.e. on the morning of the first fast day for the week. I think I had the "whoosh" that I've read so much about.

My poor body is so used to me constantly yo-yo dieting that as soon as I restrict calories, it holds onto anything it can in fear that it won't get enough any time soon! And another positive too: after FD # 7, I've found it's becoming much easier. I'm really pleased that this could actually work for me. Smile

purpleviolet1 · 07/03/2018 18:15

That's fabulous far!Grin keep on going on!

If it helps my weight loss is slow in that my tdee is 1500 (2000 deficit each week so not quite a lb) however it's happening slowly but surely and I just need to remind myself of that when I get disheartened.

peachypips · 07/03/2018 18:20

Little lady- I'm cut from the same cloth. Once I've started I can't stop. New day tomorrow!

Very very cool that she has managed to do that snail- must be very tough. Must feel like a celebration is in order!

Well done Fartoofat- I am the same in that I don't lose much the first couple of weeks of any diet.

OohMrDarcy · 07/03/2018 18:38

Evening all. Another healthy NFD complete. Nicely within TDEE and that includes pudding tonight (cake in a mug courtesy of the 8 YO) . I only ate one sausage in the end tonight- cheeky Richmond ones my DD likes. I think I remember my taste buds changing quite quickly last time too, I find that side of it really interesting.

Am feeling nicely satisfied and hydrated and ready for FD #2 tomorrow.

Well done for all the SV and NSVs all round.

Snail., sounds like you are doing a very good thing supporting your family member

littleladylawyer · 07/03/2018 19:05

peachy yes I find not eating easier than eating in moderation where there are unlimited unhealthy options in front of me! I think I've been undereating on nfds a bit too, which leads to a sort of bingey cycle.

Not eaten yet today, am unsurprisingly not hungry after consuming about 3x tdee yesterday! Going to have some dinner with lots of veg in a bit though, then make the rest of my week as mindful and nutritious as possible. Onwards and upwards (but hopefully not in weight!)

BigChocFrenzy · 07/03/2018 19:13

Well done on your SV, far
Did you change your NFD system as discussed ?
If so, then the changes worked, so I recommend you keep to that.

Sounds like you are really back in the 5:2 swing, MrD

For those starting from a high BMI, it's best to have lots of mini-goals,
e.g. every 5kg or 10 lb, then every stone and a big celebration whenever you saunter down into another BMI class.

Just stay focused & patient, settle in for the long haul and you can get to goal.

OP posts:
snailhunter · 07/03/2018 20:40

Kitchen closed at 450, four flat viewings booked, legal advice taken. Arsehole partner is quite scared of me already. He has no idea of the world of pain I am going to inflict upon him now. Grin

OohMrDarcy · 07/03/2018 20:45

Snail - I love your post Grin

quackingduck222 · 07/03/2018 20:48

Snail Grin

Must must must stick to the NO SNACKING rule, someone in one of the houses near by are eating curry and the smell is making me hungry.

Little lady I hope you meant onwards and downwards Smile

MazDazzle · 07/03/2018 21:40

Thanks purple.

FD today. Had nothing until this evening and did a HIIT class this afternoon.

Took kids to a trampoline fitness class tonight. It was fab! By the time we got home it was 8:30pm and by the time I got them all bedded it was after 9pm, so knew I wouldn’t be up for cooking my planned FD meal (butternut squash steaks with harissa, houmous, pomegranate, rocket & cous cous)... soooooo, at the trampoline park I had a scone and four malteasers instead Blush.

Healthy day at goal weight TDEE tomorrow, I promise!

HLBug · 08/03/2018 06:49

It's FD time! I'm sooooo busy at work this should hopefully be a breeze (famous last words huh?!) Then I have my first exercise class in nearly a year tonight - terrified!! New gym has a boditrax machine so will make sure to have a go on there too.

Who's with me today? Thursday Fasters - let's do this!!

Oh, and happy International Women's Day everyone - lots of strong, powerful women on this thread!!

BlueBelle123 · 08/03/2018 07:06

Count me in, second and last one for the week........after doing a b2b over the weekend and my other FD on Tuesday it means I've only had 2 NFD in 6 days!!!!