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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 71: O Come All Ye Fasters, Joyful and triumphant, O come ye, O come ye to our 5:2

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2017 19:34

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
HLBug · 16/01/2018 09:39

juicy I nap a lot more on FDs too - it makes the day go quicker! I've also just put the baby down and am lying in bed, electric blanket on, having a rest Smile

FD for me today. Awake loads overnight really thirsty due to takeaway pizza tea Angry

peachypips · 16/01/2018 09:57

I am very anti SW in particular quacking. Shocking stuff!

Cheshire GrinGrin - you tall people and your poor heads!

Will try the pigeon Granny. I do a number of stretches before running and it makes such a difference. Plus running shorter distances.

Mighty- the Hairy Bikers diet recipe books are really good and are losing carb a lot of the time too. I have two books and I use them all the time- very accessible recipes.

Fionne- I wonder if fasting stops viruses taking hold? I feel like I've been on the brink of something for weeks and it's never properly materialised.

NFD today. I just ate my naughty illegal Home-made biscuit and it was amazing. Well worth breaking my sugar rule just this once.

quackingduck222 · 16/01/2018 10:43

Peachy - RE viruses taking hold, I’m a firm believer of your theory. Before Xmas everyone we knew came down with the dredded bug and I could feel it starting but it never materialized.

Same happened a few months prior Little ones school actually closed as most the teachers and kids came down with something and they had to deep clean the school. All my lot came down with it bar me.

I’m usually the first to get every illness going but since fasting I’ve not been ill at all.

slinkyme · 16/01/2018 11:59

Checking in to FD too today. And I too am in the 5 3 camp or just under anyway. Well done to all of yesterday's fasters and good luck to today's. Busy day at work today so hoping can get through without thinking of food too much. Although cravings are coming down I am still amazed that the very stuff I want on a FD once I am on a NFD I just don't want. I find the whole mental perception of food side very interesting. Wonder if any research has ever been done on that.

I am bouncing weight wise at a lower level than a week ago but it is not coming down that fast. Will wait to see once body settles down after TOM. Once I have given ADF a go for 4 weeks may review and decide whether better to do 4:3 especially if giving the same level of results.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 12:30

Good to hear that those snacking / insulin charts helped you, mighty

Well done on your SV, blossom

Over the 4 years I have been Intermittent Fasting, I have certainly had far fewer colds than before.
Several 5:2ers have reported great improvements wrt IBS, PCOS, skin

Peer-reviewed research shows that
IF can significantly help:
.Pre / T2
.Asthma
.IBS
.PCOS
.Acne and some other skin conditions

Leading anti-aging researchers like Mike Mattson have produced many studies indicating that IF or periodic longer fasting can reduce the chances of getting several degenerative diseases,
e.g. T2, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's

OP posts:
GrannyPenny · 16/01/2018 13:34

Quick checkin - looking after 2 & 4 year old DGCs. We will be cooking blueberry and blackberry muffins after lunch - I may need to add in some chocolate sprinkles so I'm not tempted .....

Goals for today: gym class - done. No snacking. Eat within TDEE. No snacking.

My weight has stalled but I think some of it is water retention as even though it's cold my wedding band is a bit tight. I'm blaming too many cups of coffee. Going to crack open the hibiscus tea this afternoon.

Have a good day everyone.

Motheroffourdragons · 16/01/2018 14:13

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

MightyMunki · 16/01/2018 14:17

Not doing too well on my NFD, at 1150 cals already (including cake). Hosted a 30th over the weekend and there is too much temptation in my fridge. Gonna have to bin it to avoid it.

Iamblossom · 16/01/2018 15:15

NFD going well.

Have had:

0% greek yog with blueberries and seeds, banana and satsuma for brekkie

Waitrose vegan sweet potato and chipotle sandwich and 88 cal popcorn

Prawn, cod and veg stew planned for tea, MFP has it at 400 cals.

so some wriggle room for some other bits but should deffo be within TDEE today.

Am back in the zone again after SV and planning a FD tomorrow.

quackingduck222 · 16/01/2018 17:49

FD today and I’m struggling with being starving and just having a bad day in general.

Gone over at 600 cals but it could of been worse as I was actually going to pack it in and have a NFD.

Dilemma decision time do I sign up for another 25 mile virtual race next month? Hmmm I’ve hated every second but on the flip side of it I wouldn’t of signed up there’s no way in hell I would of done half of what I have.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:35

< Clears throat > .....

🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺
.

🎺🎺🎺🎺 ..... We have a NEW Thread # 72 ..... 🎺🎺🎺🎺
.
🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2018 18:40

Yes, best to bin those party remains, Mighty It's calling too loudly.

Well done on persisting on a tough FD, duck
Any alternative activity to sign up for that you'd enjoy more ?
If not, go for another 25 km

OP posts:
TalkinPeace · 16/01/2018 21:58

NO SNACKING

TalkinPeace · 16/01/2018 21:58

Do not eat back exercise calories

TalkinPeace · 16/01/2018 21:58

Drink more water

TalkinPeace · 16/01/2018 21:58

Stand on one leg when brushing your teeth

TalkinPeace · 16/01/2018 21:59

Run up the stairs

TalkinPeace · 16/01/2018 21:59

Brush your teeth after supper

TalkinPeace · 16/01/2018 21:59

and in case

TalkinPeace · 16/01/2018 21:59

you missed

TalkinPeace · 16/01/2018 22:00

me saying it

TalkinPeace · 16/01/2018 22:00

NO SNACKING

TalkinPeace · 16/01/2018 22:00

no snacking

TalkinPeace · 16/01/2018 22:00

-still no snacking

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