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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 71: O Come All Ye Fasters, Joyful and triumphant, O come ye, O come ye to our 5:2

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2017 19:34

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
quackingduck222 · 13/01/2018 09:58

Fionne 5kg is about 11lbs Shock that’s absolutely AMAZING. I’ve never seen a loss like that in the first (not even week) please come back on Monday and tell us your total for the week.

Bestbees for me personally my BMI is low now but when I started loosing weight in 2016 my BMI was just under 30, I had a 5:2 restart in March last year with a BMI of 27. It’s taken time tho as I’ve fallen off the waggon loads.

Coraking & southwest - I’ve been saying the same to myself recently that the weight needs to come off only my tummy and thighs. Underbust and waist is small enough now. I didn’t post this on Thursday when I did my measurements as I knew I would come across bad and ungrateful. I’ve lost everywhere this week apart from my large thighs. 0.5 inches off my tummy and under bust but 1.5 inches on my waist. Unfortunately you just can’t pin point it.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2018 10:09

For hormonal reasons, women - particularly in middle age and later - tend to pile on weight in their lower half, bum & thighs.
It has far less impact on health than excess fat around the waist / stomach

If your excess weight is more around your waist, this can lead to issues like high BP and T2/ preT2,
So it is more of a priority to shift
What tends to pile on weight here: alcohol, sugar, junky carbs

Fat-burning Exercise
In both cases, short bursts of HIIT can help boost loss - the intensity & frequency depend on your fitness level

If you are sedentary / health issuesm, start with "walking intervals":
alternating 2 minutes normal pace and 1 minute quick walk for a total of say 12 minutes, then build up.

If you are fitter, try the Fat Blasts in the 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 OP, which are about 4 minutes per day on 3-5 fays per week.
These can be in additional to your current exercise, if you don't do much HIIT

Post on 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 for more detailed exercise advice, or I can suggest a personalised exercise plan there.

OP posts:
Iamblossom · 13/01/2018 10:32

Hi all just checking in.

Fionne congratulations that is amazing, good for you, you must feel very motivated. I did laugh when I imagined you hustling all your family/postman/milkman/random passers by to weigh themselves to check validity of scales! Grin

I feel very proud of myself for managing 2 fds this week, having been off the 5:2 wagon for many months. I really feel in the zone again.

My exercise is always very high, but felt extra motivated and ran my first 10km for months yesterday in under an hour.

I am sticking to a tdee of 1650 most nfds, although do relax it a bit at weekends, was 2000 yesterday for example and curry and drinks out with friends this evening will take me way over I expect. But will get back to normal tomorrow and hope I haven't undone my good work.

Planning two fds again next week, Monday to get it over with and then probably Wednesday for the same reason!

Gym and dog walking planned for today and tomorrow.

Have great weekends all.

quackingduck222 · 13/01/2018 10:38

Well done Blossom, what a motivating post.

After taking a break off it can be really hard to get back to it but you’ve done so well. And amazing job on your 10k.

peachypips · 13/01/2018 10:46

That’s fantastic Fionne- most of all that you are feeling so positive and focused. Go you!

Choc- the Lidl 80% is my fav, but the Aldi is ok too.

Def Bestbees. I am exactly the same as you- 5’3”, medium build. I am also at the top of my BMI as I am just over 12 stone. I don’t look particularly good under 9 st 7. I was very slim at ten stone and wore size 10. I have a very big chest so that adds to my weight as well as having very muscular legs. Anyone know what a big boob weighs?!

Thank you for your kind words yesterday. Staying focused. My face has lost the puffiness this week that carbs add.

Ran 5k this morning which was beautiful as the dawn was breaking. Happy Saturday all- off to stand by the side of a freezing football pitch.

quackingduck222 · 13/01/2018 10:55

Peachy - Il let you into a little secret, I have implants they are a F cup and they weigh just over 1lb each. Wink

Congratulations on your early morning run that’s dedication that is!

HLBug · 13/01/2018 11:10

quacking that made me chuckle Grin good on you! I'm surprised their not heavier though - I was counting on my FFs being at least 5lb each!!

I'm getting a big hair cut in a few weeks - a good few inches need to come off - maybe that'll be a few pounds too Wink

quackingduck222 · 13/01/2018 11:27

Bug it all helps Grin

Honestly I’m not a vain person but a few years ago I lost a lot of weight very quickly on a stupid diet and literally lost my boobs overnight. I always was small but perky but I lost all the volume and they went south.

purpleviolet1 · 13/01/2018 12:47

Fionne that is bloody wonderful!

I seem to be slowly creeping up on the scales and I think I'm constipated. Had two FDs this week as well 🤔 not feeling the brightest.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2018 13:08

purple If it's just a week ir so, that's a temporary blip, usually due to hormonal swings / water retention

Could it be totm ?

Are you drinking enough water again ?
Start each day with a glass and aim for 2l, to flush out your system

Take some _exercise daily, even a 20 mins walk
Bodyweight squats also help, as deep as you can comfortably go:
… point your bum backwards, keep weight on heels, back straight

And of course, review NFDs:

  • Have snacks / grazing crept back ?
  • Too many treats ?
  • Portion Size ?
  • Junky carbs - crisps, deep fried saoury food, not just sweets
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2018 13:13

Above post isjust advice specifically for purple re her constipation

Exercise is not necessary on 5:2 to lose weight, although it is important for health to build in exercise if you can

OP posts:
GrannyPenny · 13/01/2018 13:39

Peachy and Fionne - well done on great SVs this week and congrats on a great 10k Blossom.

Purple - my weight yoyo's on the scales too so try not to be too disheartened. So very unfair sometimes. In my overweight days I once plateaued for nearly a month with no idea why - then dropped 2kg in a week.

Bees - I'm another one now here for the waist loss. I originally started 5:2 a couple of years ago when I was overweight. Not hugely, but enough that I was pre-babies + 20kg. I lost 12kg over the course of the year, back into jeans I wore in my 20s. Thought I had it cracked, put on a couple of kg, lost a couple of kg - hit 60 and discovered trying on smart black trousers for a funeral that I couldn't fasten them. Nor the other two pairs I had. Turns out that for each kilo I put on now, I add 2cm to my waistline. It's not a good look on me and very unhealthy. If I could lose belly fat through exercise alone without losing weight then I would be quite happy with my BMI - it worked for me in my early 50s, but alas just doesn't work for me now.

Quacking - my DD's Nike app and my Nike app agreed on running distance yesterday evening - although I finished in front of her and her app says her average per mile was 3 seconds faster than mine.

So, my goals for today. Conditioning class at gym - done. No snacking. Eat within TDEE. No snacking no snacking no snacking.

Have a good Saturday everyone.

purpleviolet1 · 13/01/2018 14:28

I'm feeling quite emotional (lots going on) and ds has cut his first two teeth and has been up nearly every night. It nearly kills me as I struggle (health issues). So hopefully just a blip. I have no energy right now.

MightyMunki · 13/01/2018 14:42

Well done everyone. I managed FD on Monday and Thursday and managed to survive, despite feeling very very lightheaded for most of Thursday.

I’m really trying to stick to the no snacking mantra as it’s probably my worst habit, I don’t think my meals are that bad, just all the things in between. Given I have my teas with a little milk and two sugars, would the tea count as a snack 🤔

MightyMunki · 13/01/2018 14:43

And Flowers to purple. Sleep deprivation is the worst, take each day as it comes.

peachypips · 13/01/2018 15:43

Poor you Purple- I’m so glad teething is over for me. When my youngest cut his last tooth we had a bottle of champagne. Mine were awful teethers.

Grin at quacking- I have 32GG so 3 pounds for the two? Hair cut a good shout too- shall I saw off an arm?

I have two more bad habits to get rid of. I’ve ditched the junk/sugar and am having my two fast days but I’m still snacking (nuts and cheese so lots of cals!!) and I am not drinking any water at all. Next week I’m going to address the water then the week after the snacks. Angry

TalkinPeace · 13/01/2018 16:41

bestbees
Your happy weight may be at a very different BMI from anybody elses
There is a lass at my gym whose BMI is around 24 and she is LEAN - chunky but nothing wobbles - she looks fab in a swimsuit
because her joints are big so her limbs carry lots of muscle
we are all aiming for lean rather than thin
as thin comes down to skeleton shape
but lean is under your control

HLBug · 13/01/2018 17:09

purple Thanks for you.

quackingduck222 · 13/01/2018 17:45

Best - don’t forget BMI and weight is just a number. We all carry it very diffidently.

Purple - look after yourself. Give it a week and hopefully the scales will catch up with you.

I sacked my run off today as I have been feeling a bit meh today, but have swapped my days around so today has been a FD and I’ve kept busy with paperwork. Will have a NFD tomorrow and do my run then. This may help me be more mindful tomorrow what with Monday’s weigh in day looming.

Carfish · 13/01/2018 19:54

I remember purple.... hard yards indeed - but ' this too shall pass' as they say. Hang in there Thanks
Nearly through another FD which will be 3in a week just about (Sunday, Wednesday and today). Didn't really plan that but over indulged yesterday and felt as though I'd undone all my good work just before weighing tomorrow so thought I'd get another one in for luck ! Just had a two egg omelette with a big pile of veg but have had to get out of the kitchen as my DS and DH tuck into pasta and red wine Shock. Oh well - roast beef tomorrow- yay !
Hope everyone ok and had a good day.
Onwards and upwards x

purpleviolet1 · 14/01/2018 08:36

I'm pleased to share that I am back on track ....9st 8.3 to 9st 6.5 this morning Grin that takes total loss up to 10.5lbs GrinGrinGrin

BCF is there any theory or anything about some people being 'heavy boned'? A couple of people have commented that I don't look like my weight and therefore must have heavy bones. I think the doc made a similar comment a few years ago aswell....

purpleviolet1 · 14/01/2018 09:05

9st 6.1lbs after I went to the loo GrinGrinGrin

quackingduck222 · 14/01/2018 09:34

Well done purple that’s fantastic!

slinkyme · 14/01/2018 10:56

Great news Purple. Checking in for fast day 4 of the week. A family Sunday with lots of food around so will see how it goes. Saw a video of me over Christmas dancing yesterday at a family dinner and oh dear quietly I kept thinking oh god I looked so chubby and unfit. Lots of wobbly bits. This time next year I won't be like that. I am so determined. Looks like the weight is going down but I won't officially report yet. TOM is playing silly buggers. Have had 3 false starts but then doesn't appear. Has anybody else found when they started fasting that it interfered with this. Has never happened before when I have done 5:2 or 4:3. Wondering if ADF is that much more stressful for the body that it's messing with the hormones. Will see how it goes. Wish it would be over and done with so I can see what my normal weight is.

Carfish · 14/01/2018 11:10

SV this morning 10.5.2 Smileyay ! Crept up to 10.11 briefly at Christmas. Back down to 10.8 after 'normal ' eating for a week. Started 5:2 a week ago weighing in at 10.9. Did 3 days fasting this week and doubt I'll do that regularly but it's clearly given me a good start. Want to get under 10 and stay there so hoping 6 weeks might do it then go to 6:1 but we'll see. Am guessing progress will be much slower after this first week.
Happy Sunday all x