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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 71: O Come All Ye Fasters, Joyful and triumphant, O come ye, O come ye to our 5:2

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2017 19:34

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Bestbees · 23/11/2017 06:46

Another lb down here so 9.12! So bloddy hungry this morning!!

OuchBollocks · 23/11/2017 07:56

FD here I suppose. Damn tired. DD a fair bit better so she's going to nursery and I'll go back to bed with the baby hopefully.

OuchBollocks · 23/11/2017 07:57

bestbees well done :) how tall are you and what was your starting weight?

1moreRep · 23/11/2017 08:05

fast day today combined with a fitness test for work (easy) and a gym session

HLBug · 23/11/2017 09:41

Glad your DD is doing a bit better ouch - enjoy your mummy/baby nap, they are the best. FD for me today too...and it's SNOWING Shock

Bestbees · 23/11/2017 10:22

I am 5'3. Started at 10.7 but was super bloated. 10 stone has been my weight most of my life and then got down to 9.8 last year with 5.2 then fell off the wagon. So lost 9lb in 3 weeks but think it is kore like 5lb if u ignore pmt bloat.

Bestbees · 23/11/2017 10:24

Good luck ouch!

OuchBollocks · 23/11/2017 10:24

No nap for me, the little sod fell asleep as I was getting DD ready Angry so I walked to nursery and back instead of driving and have eaten a bacon and egg sandwich - too bloody tired to fast today. FD tomorrow instead. Lots of caffeine today.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/11/2017 18:50

Well done on your SV, bestbees

OP posts:
HLBug · 23/11/2017 20:15

Kitchen closed at about 450 calories today. I seem to find my second FD of the week that bit easier. Keeping everything crossed for weigh in tomorrow...if it’s stuck at 11st 0lb again then I will be very cross.

Motheroffourdragons · 23/11/2017 22:30

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

HLBug · 24/11/2017 07:56

Right guys, it’s official - persistence with 5:2 really does pay off. After about 2.5 weeks of staying the same at 11st 0lb, my weight this morning is........10st 11lb!

I’ve had a whoooosh! 3lb down - delighted Smile

HLBug · 24/11/2017 07:57

Oh and I can now say I’ve lost more than 2 stone on this WOE/WOL Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 24/11/2017 12:04

Congrats on your SV milestone, bug Go with the whoosh Smile
Some folk don't lose linearly, but tend to stutter and then whoosh

And well done on your jeans NSV, mother

OP posts:
Bestbees · 24/11/2017 12:33

Welll done bug!!

HLBug · 24/11/2017 15:17

Thank you!

BCF I'm thinking of asking Santa for an insulated coffee mug for when I go back to work after Christmas - if I was to fill it with a skinny latte first thing then drink from it throughout the morning, would that impact on my insulin levels in relation to the graphs you often show? I'm assuming normal coffee would be fine, but I am partial to the lattes from the coffee shop across the road from my office...

purpleviolet1 · 24/11/2017 19:28

HL I am so pleased for you well done!!!!

We are back on Sunday but I can already seee I've put weight on Sad I'm not a fan of the food so have been eating junk

BigChocFrenzy · 24/11/2017 21:19

bug Sounds a fun present from Santa Smile
You could sip say an unsweetened black coffee or peppermint tea all morning, or anything else without cals

A medium size skinny latte averages about 110 calories, so you could have it as an FD` minimeal
If you are doing 16:8, it is far to much to have during the 16 fasting hours, even spread out.

Whether on FD or NFD, I'd recommend drinking a latte in one go, not spreading it out.
So, either as a minimeal, or with a meal, say as your pud.
This avoids keeping insulin raised all morning, as well as being more filling and satisfying in one go

Each day, try to eat meals, with at least 4 hours with no calories between

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/11/2017 21:23

Don't worry, purple
That bloat will be mostly undigested food, plus retained water from all the carby junk
1 or 2 FDs should get you back to roughly where you were before the vacation

I recommend you plan in advance a Monday or Tuesday FD, so you get straight back on track
Weigh and measure first thing Monday morning, then the same the following Monday and you'll see the difference a good 5:2 week makes.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/11/2017 21:28

In the meantime:

  • Drink lots of water , starting as soon as you wake up and carry water with you
  • Eat meals, not junk. Look out for something sensible to eat - salads, fish, veg sides etc
  • Only 2 more days - you can skip a couple of meals if there is only junk available sometimes, or if the food doesn't appeal.
OP posts:
HLBug · 24/11/2017 21:39

Thanks BCF - your help and advice is always really appreciated Halo

Ta1kinPeace · 24/11/2017 22:38

Boo
Non drinking November has been partial
and is part of my learning curve

MelanieCheeks · 25/11/2017 07:48

Marking place. Thanks for new thread!

BigChocFrenzy · 25/11/2017 10:04

We all need to keep learning better habits, tip because circumstances change, our bods - and liver - age and can't take the cumulative punishment as well as in our 20s.
You can do this
Stay focused the last weekend and then in December keep what you have learned from this month

I admit I'm looking forward to our Christmas do on Wed 13th, because that will end my 1.5 months of no added sugar
< phew ! > but the liver is overworked by sugary crap too: NON-alcoholic fatty liver disease is increasing for those in middle age and onwards.

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 25/11/2017 10:55

Congratulations Bug that’s AMAZING!

I’ve been deflated again this week, we eat out usually once a week and I’ve been making good choices but 3lbs on again. I know it’s undigested food and it will go it’s just so annoying. 1/2 pound off 3lbs on then takes a couple of days to disappear.

I’ve not fasted this week so I’m on B2B fast today and tomorrow.

I have learnt to be kinder to myself after getting on the scales yesterday calling myself names.
I’m struggling to see my loss in myself, my clothes yes. Luckily I took some photos of me back in March on my restart I hid them in my phone and only remembered yesterday. I can see the difference now as this year I’m down over 2 stone. Some big bumps along the way and some gains but without counting the regained losses it’s over 2 stone overall.

Good luck to the fasters today.