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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
1moreRep · 03/10/2017 11:13

hello can i join? i did my first day of fasting yesterday and did 600cals

i'm going to combine 5:2 with 16:8

i do a lot of excersize (crossfit) and i weigh 72kg at 5ft6.5 - size 12, i just am so sick of constantly watching what i eat so i thought i'd give this a try

i managed 600 cals yesterday but by reading all the posts should that have been 500? i burnt approx 500cals at the gym i don't know how i would cope reducing to 500

any tips

HLBug · 03/10/2017 13:58

Welcome 1more and congratulations on completing your first FD Smile

I'm mid FD here and I've stolen a suggestion up thread and had a mini meal of eggs with smoked salmon for lunch. It was beautiful.

Chicken, pots and veg for dinner. Should end on about 550 kcal.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/10/2017 17:06

Congrats on your SV and shape NSV, Mship
1.5 stone has made such a difference; you must be really chuffed and I expect people sround you have noticed the change

Good decision to stop weekday drinking, DrK
Your liver will thank you
Also, your liver stops all fat-burning to prioritise processing the alcohol toxins, so that is several hours more potential fat-burning you can now have each weekday.

Welcome, 1more Smile and well done on your 1st FD
Don't worry if you need 600 cals on your FDs, especially in the first few weeks
Anyway, your stats suggest 600 cals is around 25% of your TDEE, which is the real FD target

Keep going, Tuesday fasters, sounds like delic menus going on

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/10/2017 17:22

Ollivander If you like porridge for breakfast, you can make it more filling by boost the fibre & protein content and lowering GI like this:

  • Avoid instant porridge, especially the flavoured kind - it's too high GI
    Instead have steelcut oats, which you need to cook / nuke for 2-3 mins
    or have oat bran, to increase heart-healthy fibre

  • Add a tbsp of flaxmeal, for added fibre, Omega 3 (ALA), magnesium, zinc
    or chia seeds, which boosts protein & fibre
    or almond flakes for healthy fats, protein & fibre

  • Swap cows milk for unsweetened almond / cashew / coconut milk, lower cals & low GI

  • Sweeten with cinnamon & fruit, rather than sugar, or at least reduce the sugar

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/10/2017 17:25

I see you're also cutting out all snacks, DrK
That will also enable you to burn more fat during the day

Remember Dr Jason Fung's pics showing the difference in insulin levels during 24 hrs of someone on 3 meals per day without snacks vs the typical snacker:

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites
5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/10/2017 17:26

Cutting out snacks means more hours in which your body can burn fat

OP posts:
HLBug · 03/10/2017 19:29

I love those graphs - I show them to everyone Smile

1moreRep · 03/10/2017 21:06

thanks guys - i'm going to try slow cooker oats as my main fasting meal on thursday.

i feel like i've eaten loads today but i've done a spin class and a crossfit session

does anyone else do a lot of excersize ? i'm creative at workouts if anyone needs inspiration?

i plan on doing lots of soups- anyone got any good recepies?

FireInTheDisco · 03/10/2017 22:12

Thanks everyone! I managed it - just! Planning to fast again Thursday. Hopefully it was just a stress related blip and I haven’t undone my good work

DrKrogersfavouritepatient · 04/10/2017 06:21

Well done "fire*
1morerep I'm having soup today for my dd supper. Beetroot, red cabbage, red onion, celery, garlic, ginger and veg stock in slow cooker. I've made a batch of it so I do hope it's ok

MelanieCheeks · 04/10/2017 07:17

Trying a back-to-back this week, just cos that's the days which suit best. I've woken up not feeling ravenous so I'll push on into Wednesday. I have some M&S char grilled fennel and artichokes for lunch, and the rest of the ginger cauli rice for dinner, which I might stir fry with an egg. I am out dancing tonight which will keep me away from the crisps.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2017 08:01

1more Lots of science and advice on exercise on our 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #33*

** Also, if you are an exerciser, then it is important not to "eat back" calories that gadgets claim

  • that is why exercise can actually hinder weight loss for some folk.

Instead, account for them - on NFDs only - via TDEE

Mosely recommends for TDEE calculation using one activity level lower than you think,
because most people and gadgets overestimate the amount / intensity of exercise and net calories burned.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2017 09:55

Good luck with your b2b, melanie

OP posts:
SingingGoldfinch · 04/10/2017 10:45

Welcome to the newbies and good luck with first FDs etc! And good luck with you b2b Melanie - I always find that a challenge but sounds like you've got a plan! Just hope you have enough energy for your dancing later!

Fd for me today! I'm having the usual grumbly tummy issues and the funny looks from colleagues which go with them but will stick to the water and hold out for my cup soup and rice cake at lunchtime!

Hang in there all those fasting today!

Ollivander84 · 04/10/2017 12:04

3hr horse ride done. 14:10 as usual

OuchBollocks · 04/10/2017 12:22

FD here. Going for 800 cals. I've had a spinach and red pepper omelette. Probably prawn stir fry for dinner.

SingingGoldfinch · 04/10/2017 14:28

Yum! Like the sound of your omlette Ouch! Beats my cup soup and rice cake!

Lovely day for a horse ride ollivander - bet that burnt a few calories too!

Ollivander84 · 04/10/2017 14:32

Hope so! It's howling wind and rain here so we've blown the cobwebs away a bit

peachypips · 04/10/2017 15:06

Hi all. Back-to-back sounds intense! I'm on fast day no 2 today and it's all going well. I've had 1.5 litres of water so far, my 50cals of milk and a bovril. For dinner I'm having a lamb ready meal from Aldi (380 cals) and some kale.

On my non-fast day yesterday I had soup with bacon and Parmesan for lunch and a BBQ for tea. Also ate a bowl of Yoghurt with nuts and two squares of 80% choc.

I'm beginning to worry about this WOE not working. I really really want to lose weight and this is very doable for me- what of it doesn't work!!? I'm only on day three and I'm already worrying about it!

Fasting at 500 on Mon, Wed, Fri.

peachypips · 04/10/2017 15:07

Olli- where are you? It's glorious sunshine here!

Ollivander84 · 04/10/2017 15:10

North west!

OuchBollocks · 04/10/2017 15:28

peachy I'm 20lbs down in 16 weeks, and 2 of those I was on holiday and 1 I had DD in hospital so just ate shite. There's no reason why it shouldn't work for you :)

SingingGoldfinch · 04/10/2017 16:23

Peachy - this well work! I started at 11st 4lb in May and am now 9st 9lb heading for my target of 9.5st. My original target was 10st but when I got there I decided to go for an extra half stone. I'm finding it really manageable and feel generally better with less tummy issues too. Good all round!

HLBug · 04/10/2017 16:40

Peachy keep the faith! I've also had a great time with this WOE and WOL so far - been going for 12 weeks and I've lost 19 pounds so far (and again had holidays / big event days in that time). I now never feel bloated and I'm absolutely certain that I'm calmer and happier too. Just don't go mad on your NFDs (MFP and 16:8/14:10 are good tools to help with discipline) and remember to avoid snacks.

Starting Weight: 12 stone 12 pounds
Current Weight: 11 stone 7 pounds
Target Weight: 10 stone 3 pounds
Weeks on 5:2: 12 weeks
Total Loss: 19 pounds

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2017 17:54

Stay cool, peachy 5
:2 / IF works for nearly everyone, provided their normal" eating on NFDs isn't usually way above TDEE and they don't go mad at weekends.
Just relax, be patient and review progress after 2 weeks

Like any weight loss WOE - progress will be slower for those:
who are peri/meno
or with some conditions like thyroid, PCOS
or on certain meds like ADs, steroids
or who are already within healthy BMI but wanting to be leaner

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