Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
HLBug · 29/09/2017 10:18

Popping in to say hello. Weighed in at 11st 8lb this morning - 1lb more than last week but food has been all over the place this week as the whole family has been struck down with this blasted stomach bug. I've been cleaning up various sick for nearly 2 weeks now as slowly everyone has been brought down.

I'm feeling better now, albeit exhausted! May try a mini FD over the weekend to get back into the swing of things, then try and get back to my normal Tues/Thurs next week.

September has been a funny month for 5:2 what with breaks for holidays / bugs etc - I'll be glad to get back to some type of routine in October!

Good luck to anyone fasting today Smile

GrannyGrown · 29/09/2017 11:04

HLBug that sounds a totally horrendous two weeks. The tiredness can last for for a good while after it's gone, so make sure you take good care of yourself.

Found my exercise class this morning very challenging and had to modify some of the exercises. Don't remember it being so hard before.

Looking forward to my Friday wine, but planning to swap the salty snacks for humous and carrot sticks.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/09/2017 12:18

Granny Try wine with a delicious Friday supper, instead of healthier snacks ?

OP posts:
GrannyGrown · 29/09/2017 15:46

BigChoc - the snacks are more like horses d'oeuvres, eaten straight before the main. Wine at the same time. So technically part of a meal.

OuchBollocks · 29/09/2017 18:17

Crikey granny, horses are in real trouble around you! Grin

HLBug · 29/09/2017 19:54

Right. Accountability time. DH came home with a takeaway and I've basically binged. Grr. I also had a chocolate chip brioche and some Pringles this afternoon. So, I am a very bad 5:2er. I had snacks!! Snacks!! Shock Oh and I acted as a rubbish bin for DS's left over pasta.

F*ck off September. You've been a shit month. New (autumn coloured) leaf time - I will loose 7lb in October, that is my new mini goal. Hmph - let's do this.

peachypips · 29/09/2017 20:14

Hi everyone- can I please join the thread? I have just completed the 8 week BSD and have lost just over a stone (wasn't totally strict with the 800 calories the last three weeks - just stuck with low carb and no sugar).

They advise moving on to intermittent fasting when the 8 weeks is up, so I want to get on with it now.

I'm wondering about doing every other day fasting. Will I cope? I want to lose the weight as quickly as I can as I get very discouraged when I lose half a pound a week!

I intend to carry on with no sugar and lowish carbs whilst doing the EOD fasting as it is really suiting me and I feel much more well. I enjoy eating that way!

Any comments for a novice? Am I being naive and too ambitious?!

BigChocFrenzy · 29/09/2017 20:39

Welcome, Peachy Smile and well done on your SV with the BSD

I would suggest you basically keep to the same kind of food, just more of it
To avoid an abrupt change, which might throw you off track, you could start with 2 weeks of 4:3 BSD, with 800 FDs on say Mon+Wed+Fri
Then go onto 5:2 BSD, with 2 800 FDs

Mosely recommended boosting bens, peas, lentils and having full fat Greek yoghurt on the BSD. So, if you haven't done so, I recommend adding them now on NFDs

As Mosely suggests for post-BSD, on NFDs you could optionally treat healthy carbs as small sides, not normal portions, i.e. add 2-3 tbsp oats / brown or red rice / quinoa / sweet potato etc to each meal.

However, sugar and wheat (even whole-grain) seem to be the most fattening foods and the most likely to cause you to crash out of your WOL, especially for those who are insulin-resistant.

So I'd recommend avoid added sugar, or foods containing them - cakes, biscuits, sweets etc
and also avoid wheat, including wheat pasta and bread
You could make your own bread and treats with almond / coconut flour instead of wheat.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 29/09/2017 20:39

boosting beans

OP posts:
peachypips · 29/09/2017 20:49

Thank you for the quick response.

Good idea re 4:3- I was wondering about that. Mon-Wed-Fri would work well.

I don't mind never having sugar in particular again. I had a couple of squares of Dairy Milk today for the first time, and it tasted so so sweet and left a foul taste in my mouth afterwards. Not intending to eat that again! Tasted like poison.

I will start on Monday. I feel like the BSD has eased me in and I am no longer afraid of being hungry.

Thanks for helping!

TheMShip · 30/09/2017 06:22

Sounds like an exciting week on the thread, just catching up! Kids waking, I just have time to say sv today, down another 1 lb to 13st 7.6.

HLBug · 30/09/2017 07:00

Ok. Me again. I've given myself a shake. All that really happened yesterday was that I ate over TDEE. That, on one day, is not the end of the world. I think years of trying other diets (as opposed to a WOL like this) has told me I need to feel overly guilty for days like that.

I'm moving on and back to the original plan. Mini FD this weekend (probably today) then FDs Tues/Thurs next week as normal.

Still glad to see the back of September though!!

Oh and welcome peachy and congratulations on your BSD successes Smile Happy Saturday everyone!

HLBug · 30/09/2017 07:00

And congratulations on the SV MShip!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/09/2017 08:14

Well done on your SV, Mship
The 12 somethings are in your sights

Yup, just move on, bug
What matters is how you do over the weeks, not in a single day
You sound in a positive frame of mind for today

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/09/2017 09:10

My usual Saturday FD - gives me time for errands and gym
Water & black coffee all day, biking to errands, then lifting & spin, supper of salmon salad
Anyone else ? Smile

OP posts:
peachypips · 30/09/2017 10:54

Morning all. Sitting in cinema with eight six-yr-olds sipping water while they eat popcorn!

I enjoy lifting and spin too- really love Body Pump. Off to Pizza Hut afterwards- salad and a coffee for me!

My stats:
Weight- 12 stone
Build- muscular but with a large padding of extra fat!
Height- 5'3"
Goal- 10 stone
Fast days- Mon, Wed, Fri

Thanks for the welcome- looking forward to ridding myself of my last pounds!

OuchBollocks · 30/09/2017 12:12

FD here. Aiming for sub 800 calories. Just had a gorgeous prawn stir fry with a tiny bit of brown rice on the side. Mushroom omelette and steamed veg tonight. I will be going for a gentle stroll to the playground in the next hour.

Ollivander84 · 30/09/2017 12:21

Work and 14:10 for me but may end up being more like 16:8

BigChocFrenzy · 30/09/2017 18:46

I'm another 5'3" mesopmorph, Peachy, but at age 61 I'm probably a lot older than you, hence not your longlost twin
My Happy Weight range is 8st 8 - 9 st

I lift quite heavy - up to 75kg upper body and 149 kg calf raises, about 23.5 st / 328 lb - but somewhat less in pump !

OP posts:
HLBug · 30/09/2017 19:24

Mini FD = done Smile
Homemade fish finger sandwich for lunch then chicken / veg stir fry for dinner.
Kitchen closed at about 950 kcal.

OuchBollocks · 30/09/2017 20:47

Kitchen closed. Bloody hungry despite 2 sensible meals with lean protein and lots of veggies. Got grumpy with DD at bedtime because I was so hungry :( very early night tonight.

OuchBollocks · 01/10/2017 07:59

1.5lb off this morning but it was hard won this week. Took hours to drop off last night I was so hungry, then up half the night as the D.C. appeared to be engaged in competitive coughing.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/10/2017 08:00

That's a good Saturday mini, bug

ouch Did you drink enough water - around 2l ?
However, for all of us, we get an occasional FD when we are just hungrier than usual
The early night was a good move - hunger is significantly increased by lack of sleep

If it is taking longer than 3-4 weeks to adapt to the 800 cal FDs, I suggest returning to the 1000 FDs, since you are still BFing.
Or try having an 800 and a 1000 FD each week instead.
IIf you then wish to speed up loss, you could add a 3rd 1000Ff evey couple of weeks, say

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 01/10/2017 08:01

a 3rd 1000 FD

OP posts:
OuchBollocks · 01/10/2017 10:16

Drank loads of water BCF, it didn't stop me feeling hungry, it just made me slosh a bit. I think one 800 and one 1000 FD is good enough for now, DS is still getting almost all his calories from milk and he's a big old lump. I'm happy with my loss this week. This makes me probably the lightest I've been for several years Blush

Swipe left for the next trending thread