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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
quackingduck222 · 18/11/2017 16:49

Bug you look amazing. What a achievement.

Yesterday I was starting to get ideas of binge eating again. For today, I’m notorious for it when I get 2 hour alone on a Saturday. I’d asked my friend what she wanted for Xmas and she wanted a certain brand of chocolates. I’d said I’d never tried and she said she was suprised as it was right up my street.

I’d had a huge takeaway and was stuffed but decided to have the chocolate bar (250cals) as part of the meal. Felt sick and uncomfortable for the rest of the night but it was over and done with. Urge gone and on a FD today. It’s saved me from myself today anyway.

Went out yesterday and filled the freezer with lots of veg so going to have a good week ahead.

1moreRep · 18/11/2017 21:31

hi all- well i have binged for the past 2 days- it’s been awful (ive worked out both days) but i’ve just pigged our, i have no idea why so i’m going to start to do a weekend fd, but a mini one as an extra of 800 calories which should be doable tomorrow as my normal fast day is monday but i’ll change it to tuesday and thursdays.

my trigger is my boyfriend who has an amazing metabolism and i’m always happy to eat with him as he’s in the forces so despite being together years it’s rare to have him “home”

he stays over 3 nights a week and that’s when i eat the most

BigChocFrenzy · 18/11/2017 22:39

Looking good, bug
Stay focused and you'll crack on to the 10 stone somethings.
If you get impatient waiting, just compare this photo to one at the start, so you can see how much you have achieved alreay.

Well done on your SV, purple

duck Having the choc as part of a meal meant you were too full to continue the binge.
That's one reason why the "no snacking" rule helps

1more It's great to eat with your bf, but you should not be eating the same amount at meals
This is a common mistake women make, eating the same as a male OH.
However, even if a woman had exactly the same age, height and exercise level, biology would still give her a lower TDEE - and most women are smaller.
iirc a Horizon program with one of Mosely's colleagues were following a couple where the woman had a 1500 TDEE and her DP 3000 - so she would literally need to eat half the calories he did.

Recommendation: Calculate your bf's TDEE, setting exercise level as the highest - quite likely in the forces.
Then you know by how much you need to scale down your meals
Remember to cut out your snacks: young athletic men do sometimes need to snack to maintain their weight, or of hey wish to increase muscle mass. You do not.
Also, don't try to keep up with his alcohol consumption - potential calorie bombs - alternate with glasses of water

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 19/11/2017 09:18

Thanks BCF! So pleased. Admittedly I
Feel a little dehydrated but still. Going to tank up on water today.

Going on wed and back on Sunday. I’ve scheduled a fd on Monday for 650 cals, wed for 1000 cals and Friday for 650 cals.

1moreRep · 19/11/2017 10:58

thanks bigchoc it does not help that he is a marine and also likes a drink

BigChocFrenzy · 19/11/2017 13:35

purple Drink another glass of water now and keep drinking.

Everyone: boost water ! Every day.
Your body needs it for health, to enable it to perform its processes efficiently - including fat-burning & disposal

OP posts:
Bestbees · 20/11/2017 07:20

Much needed fast day here after a weekend of excess Blush

quackingduck222 · 20/11/2017 07:51

Monday weigh in is here and 0.6lbs off this week. Slightly disappointed as apart from 1 dessert last Monday and a huge meal Friday night I’ve been great all week. I had a mini fast yesterday too.

But from previous restarts I know I’m at my sticky weight that I really struggle to get under but as soon as I do it it’s easier again. Funny enough happens every stone.

quackingduck222 · 20/11/2017 07:52

Posted tomorrow soon. Good luck to anyone fasting today

TheMShip · 20/11/2017 08:54

You're all doing really well! Bug what an amazing photo, you look fabulous.

I'm reluctantly having to move to 6:1 for a while. Life and circumstances are making 2 FDs a week too challenging to schedule and I get stressed out when I can't achieve the plan. It'll be better for me overall to do 6:1 maintenance-ish through the winter until things settle down again. This week it'll be Tuesday that should work, with Wednesday as a back-up.

That said, after my wee bumpy ride through conference week and then last week being a total £$^%-show, I'm down to 13st 2.3 today. And that's after breakfast because I forgot to do it before. I guess my period bloat was a big factor in the last couple of weeks? I'd love to crack 13st as a Christmas present to myself. That might well still be achievable on 6:1.

peachypips · 20/11/2017 11:10

Hi all. It's got to suit you MShip - I think because it's a way of life it is easy to do this kind of mini-break.

FD today. I really screwed up yesterday as we had a wedding. I reckon I had at least 3500 cals. Ugh. It upsets me when I do this as I feel like I'm undoing my good work from the week. Grrr.

I want to break into the 10s before Christmas if I can- that's 7 pounds away though so not sure it's possible!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/11/2017 12:22

Good luck, Monday fasters !
A good FD will lighten the load, bestbees

That's still progress, duck at the rate your body will accept
Have you had a week on mfp to check NFDs ?

Mship After totm, most women drop some weight as the excess water is released
It's fine to maintain for a few months;
In fact sometimes it's good for your bod to consolidate and get used to its new weight.
Also, for you to make good habits permanent: drinking more water, no snacks, NHS alcohol limits, if possible a short daily walk or some other exercise

peachy If you stay focused - nail the FDs, be sensible on NFDs, no snacking etc - then 10 stone something looks feasible

Same advice for you, Mship with only 3lb to crash into 12 something.

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 20/11/2017 12:55

Yes been on MFP for 2/3 weeks since my restart and I’m well under TDEE daily by 400-500 cals. Not intentionally but I’ve been super duper busy last few weeks.

I’ve had a touch of constapation this week so I don’t think that’s helped matters.

I’m not beating myself up as I know this happens so just hoping for a decrease in the scales next week.

HandMini · 20/11/2017 22:01

Evening all, managed a good FD today: salad with a bit of couscous in for lunch; lentil and chickpea soup for dinner.

I too struggle with the NFDs, particularly at the weekend. Eating into your hard work is so frustrating!!

Bestbees · 21/11/2017 07:05

Handmini me too!

Ok fast day. Ate a pieve of toast with omlette so took my over 500. However not hungry this morning so will skip breakfast. Hopefully this will help!

Motheroffourdragons · 21/11/2017 09:08

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

HLBug · 21/11/2017 09:21

FD here and it’s miserable and rainy Sad Hoping DD is tired today after her 3am crib party last night.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2017 11:49

How about a weekend FD or miniFd ( sub-1000) ?
It gives structure

In the weight loss phase, I found that a Saturday FD considerably reduced the weekend damage.
In maintenance, I don't always still do this, but the experience has trained me not to be madly indulgent at weekends

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/11/2017 11:52

Another tactic is simply to plan ypur NFD menu for the whole day in advance - takes 10 seconds to decide on your meals; then stick to the plan.
Useful NFD enablers:
No snacking, keep to NHS alcohol guidelines, drink more water, eat more veg, no mote than 1 "treat" portion per NFD

OP posts:
Motheroffourdragons · 21/11/2017 12:22

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

peachypips · 21/11/2017 12:28

Hi all,

Hope you had a nice time Mother and rain is stopping HLBug. FD is hard when weather is crap.

Good FD yesterday and so far so good on NFD today. Whoop

OuchBollocks · 21/11/2017 12:37

Dropped off the thread - been visiting family for a few days and ate and drank way too much Blush actually felt fairly rubbish from it, glad to be back on it today. It was fab getting loads of compliments from family I haven't seen since the summer Grin

HLBug you look fab. Jel! Grin

Collectorofcookbooks · 21/11/2017 14:56

Most of the way through a FD here - fell off the wagon last Thursday, and then had a dinner party last night so yesterday wasn't a fast either! But on the plus side I'm still feeling full from my second slice of cheesecake.

Will power on through. Time for some more water. Looking forward to my smoked salmon and eggs later.

OuchBollocks · 21/11/2017 15:52

Crap news from the fracture clinic. The cartilage between my ankle bones is badly damaged, that's causing a lot of the pain and stiffness and will only probably get worse not better, and there's not really anything they can do about it. Deep fucking joy. Can't run, Can't squat, struggle on steep slopes, got to get used to it :(

Ta1kinPeace · 21/11/2017 15:59

Oh you poor thing ouch
are they really just copping out and leaving you in pain ?