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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
MazDazzle · 27/09/2017 12:37

I'm rubbish with numbers Singing! It was thread 32 and Dec 2013, so even longer ago than I thought. I still remember some of the fab thread titles - spoon licking and satan's whizz being some of my favourites!

Ouch being woken up repeatedly by a crying baby when you're in a deep sleep is the absolute pits. Complete torture! I survived the baby stage on biscuits and sit coke Blush. However, someone on here gave me a recipe for date energy balls, whizzed in a blender and rolled in coconut. When I was really struggling through lack of sleep it was handy having them in the fridge rather than falling headfirst into the biscuit tin.

I had to laugh at your lack of fondness for the baby stage granny! I have to smile through gritted teeth whenever some kind stranger tells me that babies are just the best and how lucky I am. Age 2 and up suits me much better!

MazDazzle · 27/09/2017 12:38

Diet Coke

GrannyGrown · 27/09/2017 13:47

7 months is a tough age Ouch - difficult to entertain when they're awake but fighting sleep when they're tired. Hope the day and your little one improves.

Mazz - I was and still am very fond of sleeping babies and my abilities to "coo" and say "how gorgeous" are second to none!

I now have DGCs nearly 4 and nearly 2. Definitely get fewer tantrums from them than they throw at my DIL and DD!! I do find them hard work at times though - I forget that I should have no expectation of any moments of quietness to myself when I'm looking after them! Still, an hour at the park running after them, pushing on swings, roundabouts, etc - counts as a workout right??

GingerAndTheBiscuits · 27/09/2017 20:11

FD2 done at sub-550. Much easier than Monday!

BigChocFrenzy · 27/09/2017 20:36

Well done, ginger

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 27/09/2017 20:45

I'm fond of sleeping babies too, granny!

Well done Ginger.

GrannyGrown · 27/09/2017 21:44

Very well done Ginger.

OuchBollocks · 28/09/2017 08:19

Good morning Thursday fasters :)

GingerAndTheBiscuits · 28/09/2017 09:32

You can do it Thursday fastest!

BigChocFrenzy · 28/09/2017 09:56

I'm fasting today. Anyone else ?

I'll have my usual FD supper of pan-fried salmon, huge mixed salad, balsamic & olive oil dressing. With a few loganberries to follow

OP posts:
GrannyGrown · 28/09/2017 10:40

Morning Ouch. How's your little one?

I'm joining Thursday FD. Can't honestly say I'm looking forward to it though as I've found giving up snacking hard enough. In case of emergency my fall-back plan is to eat back the calories from today's kettle bell class (120). Evening meal will be omelette with as many veg as makes up the calories.

OH is not on board anymore. When I told him yesterday I'm going back to FDs but only doing 6:1 with FD on a Thursday he pulled a face asked why I needed to. Really missing my own space and the freedom I had to go about my day without the need for consultation.

OuchBollocks · 28/09/2017 11:21

He's a bit better thanks granny. He slept pretty well last night so I'm just standard level tired rather than utterly wrecked Grin sorry to hear your DH isn't on board. I get your frustration a little bit, I'm on mat leave and usually fill my days pretty well. DH has been on annual for 2 weeks and is back at work today, it is nice to be pottering around suiting myself again, he was starting to do my head in a bit (sorry DH). I have a fantasy that when we retire and the children move out we'll sell the house and live in separate flats. He can keep his man crap in his and mine will be a palace of minimalism Grin

Anyway. Yes I am fasting today. Bit rumbly of tummy but been busy so far this morning and about to head out to drop off recycling then pick DD up from nursery and walk home via the playground. Was half thinking cauliflower and squash curry for dinner but not sure.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/09/2017 12:35

Good luck to all of us fasting today Smile
Granny Your OH does sound a miserably negative sod

OP posts:
SingingGoldfinch · 28/09/2017 14:02

Good luck with you fd Granny! Must be very discouraging to have to endure eye-rolls from dh. Rise above it if you can!

Pleased baby is a bit better Ouch and that you got a bit more sleep! Hopefully even more tonight too and you'll be on the way to feeling a bit more human!

Nfd here - its dd's birthday today so I had a chocolate brioche (her fave) for breakfast and will be taking her for ice cream waffles after school, followed by birthday cake of course! I've only had a cup of soup for lunch to try abc balance it a bit (like that's going to help!?!)

Weighed in today and have lost half a pound - now 9st9 on the dot. 2lb to go! Dh has started telling me not to lose any more but just another two lb will give me a bit of grace!

GrannyGrown · 28/09/2017 15:12

Thanks all. I think it's more the why the hell do I feel I need to have his approval anyway.

Back from the gym. Kettlebell class was a bit of a let-down today. The air con was broken and there'd been a spin class in before us, so the air was humid. Even with the door open I struggled and only managed 4kg most of the time as my hands were so sweaty I felt as if my palms would blister if I pushed on with the 8kg. On top of that, instructor is still struggling with a heavy cold and he chose my 8kg bell to demonstrate with. Bleurgh. Hope the anti-bac spray I cleaned it with before picking it up works. Couldn't get out and wash my hands quick enough afterwards.

So after a disappointing class, came home and did JM level 1 whilst OH had lunch. He stood in the doorway watching me for a while, which was very un-nerving so I shouted at him to go away. Anyway, I've had a small protein shake and he's gone out for a walk.

Feeling tired, but not hungry.

Congratulations on the SV Singing.

GrannyGrown · 28/09/2017 17:55

Am now officially hungry. There better be no passing horses between now a dinner time ..... Wink!

Ollivander84 · 28/09/2017 17:56

14:10 done
I am fasting tonight by wearing my mouth guards with whitening gel Grin as you can't eat when wearing them and can only have water after

neveradullmoment99 · 28/09/2017 20:13

Hello :)
Still doing the 5:2 [ had a fast day yesterday] and today has just been a normal day. Will do my 16:8 the rest of the days. Have done well with weight loss now. Still cutting out sugary treats. Down to the size i was about 6 months ago with most size 12's fitting me well. My aim is really a 10 but it has been a slow process. I am quite pleased though. Just fine losing the last amount of weight a real slog.

neveradullmoment99 · 28/09/2017 20:16

OH is not on board anymore. When I told him yesterday I'm going back to FDs but only doing 6:1 with FD on a Thursday he pulled a face asked why I needed to. Really missing my own space and the freedom I had to go about my day without the need for consultation.

My dh is like this. He can be very unsupportive. I just ignore him tbh.

OuchBollocks · 28/09/2017 21:31

820 calories. Kitchen closed, teeth cleaned. Can recommend Jamie Oliver's quick Asian fishcakes (I omitted the chilli jam as I didn't have any but a few chilli flakes would be nice). I will try for another FD around the 800 cal mark on Saturday, though DS hasn't noticeably decreased his milk intake yet.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/09/2017 21:37

< tunefully croaks Happy Birthday to Mini Goldfinch >

Well done on your SVs, Dull, Goldfinch

I'm anxious about horses near Granny
Maybe Ollivander has a spare mouthguard fir you

  • great idea to block off gob from food ! Grin Are they boxing mouthguards ? I have one for boxing, but never thought of using it on FDs
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 28/09/2017 21:40

Well done, ouch That sounds tasty and fish is always a good idea.

Time to close the kitchen, Thursday fasters and treat your bod to an early night

OP posts:
SingingGoldfinch · 28/09/2017 22:56

Mmmmm love the sound of Asian fish cakes Ouch! I'll definitely look those up! Well done on a good fd - love the fact you resorted to teeth whitening mouth guards! At least it killed two birds with one stone!

Hope you've avoided the horses Granny?

I've eaten waffles, cake and lasagne and have also had a glass of wine this evening - it's not every day your dd turns 12! Will stick to tdee tomorrow!

GrannyGrown · 28/09/2017 23:56

FD came in at just over 530 calories but I'm already beginning to feel hungry again so horses had better stay away a little bit longer.

Can't go to bed until just after midnight. Local gym releases online booking of classes two weeks in advance and as they're always full so if there's a particular class I want to book then I hit the app at midnight. Friday morning is killer abs so am staying up to book it. Pity I have to get up early for tomorrow's class though. On the plus side, even though I still have plenty of belly fat to get rid of, I can see the beginnings of a little muscle definition which is very motivating.

Sounds like you and your dd had a lovely day Singing.

Ollivander84 · 29/09/2017 00:40

Big - no, they're ones I had done for zoom whitening (top and bottom) so I decided to fast and whiten teeth. Two birds and all that

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