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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Ollivander84 · 01/10/2017 10:24

Work. Again. 14:10. Again Grin

HLBug · 01/10/2017 13:40

You sound soooo happy about that Ollivander Grin

Ollivander84 · 01/10/2017 14:09

It's Sunday Grin my alarm went off at 5.50am 😭

peachypips · 01/10/2017 15:28

Def a mesomorph Bigchoc - a working pony rather than a stallion! I'm 39 so no quite your long-lost twin! I am also very strong for my size and height- I always surprise people with my strength. DH calls me freakish! Pump is far too many reps for heavy weights- I love how in touch with my body I feel when I am doing pump- it's very empowering.

Hope you are all having a good weekend. First fast day tomorrow although I've been doing the right week thingy so hopefully not too much of a shock.

I've fallen off the sugar wagon this weekend- haven't eaten any sugar or carbs for 8 weeks. Had birthday cake yesterday and cheesecake today despite saying that I would never eat sugar again! It's so easy to slip back into it- I'm genuinely like an addict when it comes to sugar. It always triggers a binge and I prob need to treat it like a true addiction and not touch it. Without sugar my diet is so much more balanced.

Re my fast tomorrow- would it work to just eat non-carby veg and nothing else? So a big plate of lettuce, cucumber, pepper and celery for lunch with vinegar, then the same or similar for tea with a small piece of fish? I don't like counting calories so want a way of eating volume without having to count too much.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/10/2017 18:43

peachy I would suggest adding some low-cal protein to lunch, or you may feel very hungry
e.g. prawns/ egg / cottage cheese / kidney beans

Have you tried just having a beef Bovril (10 cals) for lunch, to save all your cals for supper ?

I do this and I never count calories
My usual FD meal is panfried salmon or sea bass with a huge mixed salad, olive oil, balsamic vinegar.
Sometimes swap the olive oil for Mediterranean veg

My recent FD suppers:

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites
5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites
OP posts:
FireInTheDisco · 01/10/2017 20:07

Awful awful two weeks but I’m back. Fasting tomorrow and hoping not to be weak again!!

Planning soup at lunch and omelette for dinner - it’s going to be awful readjusting but I only have myself to blame!!

HLBug · 01/10/2017 21:57

< Waves at Fire and offers a big hug and a helping hand back onto the wagon >

BigChocFrenzy · 02/10/2017 08:08

Welcome back, Fire Smile
Many folk have wobbles when life gets horrid, but you are strong and you're back on the 5:2 wagon

Good luck with your FD - and drink water !

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 02/10/2017 09:51

14:10 again today. Loss is v v slow but I've hit 14st 8 exactly

TheMShip · 02/10/2017 09:55

Hi fire! Good loss Olli! Too windy to cycle today so I've jazzed up and worn a dress to work. I feel fab Grin

peachypips · 02/10/2017 14:47

Afternoon all. First fast day going well so far. Measured out 100ml of milk (50cal) and had some of it with two coffees this morning. Drank a litre of water this morning too and will space my second litre over the rest of today.

Had a Bovril for lunch as suggested by BCF and it was surprisingly satisfying! I've never had it before.

Big salad for dinner with an egg and some smoked salmon.

Onwards!!

peachypips · 02/10/2017 14:48

Oh and exercise today- I finish work at 12 on a Monday so I did a gentle 5k run along the seafront. Was lovely.

TheMShip · 02/10/2017 16:09

Completely forgot to say I'm fasting today too. Going well so far, aiming for my usual 800 (if it ain't broke ...). Very hungry now but not long till lovely teriyaki salmon dinner.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/10/2017 17:56

Well done on your SV, Ollivander
You are losing at a pace that suits you
It's a WOL, not a race

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 02/10/2017 18:00

I had porridge the other morning and noticed it didn't fill me as much as my standard banana pancakes!
Work were ordering breakfast (to eat for lunch) and I asked what they had. Anyway they produced what they call a slimming world breakfast. Lean bacon, dry fried mushrooms, egg, fresh tomatoes, beans. Was really nice and filled me up well

OuchBollocks · 02/10/2017 18:21

I had a mega fat boy breakfast this morning, DH and I had a breakfast 'date' after the nursery drop. Not eaten since. Once upon a time I would have had dinner out of habit even though I wasn't hungry Halo

MelanieCheeks · 02/10/2017 18:24

Back on it! Had a good 2 days last week, hoping for the same this week.

Bought some lovely looking gingery cauliflower rice from M&S to try - 70cals for the whole pack.

MazDazzle · 02/10/2017 20:16

Quick check in to report a successful FD: 700 cals (baked potato with steak and veg) and a weight training session with my PT. After a fairly indulgent weekend and three nights on the booze, I'm happy with that.

SingingGoldfinch · 02/10/2017 22:18

Good work everyone! I always find it hard to catch up if I don't get a chance to check the thread for a couple of days but sounds like you've all been doing well - and nice to see some more new 5:2ers too!

Fd here today and kitchen closed on about 500cals. I've discovered Waitrose 'Love Life' cup soup - Just 59cals a serving and I had one of those with 2 rice cakes for lunch followed by a yummy butter bean and paprika stew for tea. Feeling very hungry now and thinking today's menu may have been a bit too light on the protein front but will head to bed looking forward to a sensible nfd tomorrow!

TheMShip · 03/10/2017 08:12

Yesterday's FD was a good one, and today I'm 13st 7.1 so I'm calling that my half stone milestone and I took photos this morning. What a difference 1.5 st makes, and you can see the change from 14 st fairly clearly too.

Singing I like the sound of those soups, there's a Waitrose near my work, I should check them out.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites
5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites
HLBug · 03/10/2017 08:55

Brilliant MShip, congratulations!

DrKrogersfavouritepatient · 03/10/2017 09:06

wow Mothership impressive.
Hello, me again (you know, fatty who can't stop drinking)
Well, I had to write last week off. PMT and weird virus (Also suspect I might be perimenopausal but i'll ignore that for now)
I have pledged to stop drinking in the week. I know it's quite pathetic that I've had to make an actual pledge but there you go. Last night I managed to avoid the wine that DH was drinking. It was a challenge but I feel fantastic this morning. Yesterday I had what I might call a mini fast (to make myself feel better) and I had coffee for breakfast, plenty of fruit tea, a tiny brown rice and beetroot salad for lunch and then jacket potato with a mayo free coleslaw for supper (I'm going to stay away from all snacks this week and going to have absolutely no alcohol until the weekend (that's saturday not starting on Friday). I'm also going to have a proper fast day tomorrow.
I feel quite positive but I'm also wary of next month's PMT . Anyway, this thread, as ever, is inspirational, so than you BCF and all those who contribute

DrKrogersfavouritepatient · 03/10/2017 09:08

Singinggoldfinch I like your FD menu, nice and convenient too.

SingingGoldfinch · 03/10/2017 09:44

Wow MShip! That's an amazing transformation! Thanks for sharing the pic and your progress! You must be so chuffed - and rightly so!

DrK - I sympathise on the weeknight drinking. I got into bad habits with this in the past but now very definitely only drink at the weekends (social engagements aside) and actually enjoy it so much more! It's less of a habit and I look forward to that Friday night glass of wine so much more.

The Waitrose love life cup soup is ok for a powdered soup and only 59cals! I had the country veg yesterday and it was quite tasty - definitely very easy for a quick working day lunch too!

peachypips · 03/10/2017 10:59

Crumbs Mship that shows the difference! Spurs me on.

Like the idea of the cup-a-soup. A change from Bovril if I get sick of it!

I'm lucky in that I can't drink due to medication so that cuts out a lot of temptation for me. I really miss a cold glass of dry white though!

First fast day went well yesterday- looking forward to lunch today!

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