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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
MelanieCheeks · 15/11/2017 17:49

Had an OK FD on Monday, today is going better. Had a fantastic veggie ploughmans for lunch - rice cakes with tofu/ mushroom pate, tomato, pickles including some great Chinese sour cucmber ones. An apple and a mini-babybel.

Off running training, but I've prepped my stir fry for when I get home, which is a load of veg with some rose bean curd and zero noodles.

HandMini · 15/11/2017 20:15

So, kitchen closed after an OK Fast Day.

Powered through on just tea with small splashes of skimmed milk until this evening when I had a large salad with veggies, a bit of mozarella and dressing and one square of chocolate.

Damn - why did I eat that chocolate having just decided a few hours before to save treats for weekend. Oh well.... on the plus side I think I was inside 500kcal.

Am planning to do Shred as my exercise...haven't done anything for a couple of months so need to get back into it.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/11/2017 21:18

Brilliant wedding dress NSV, MissLudgate
You've done so well to cut out snacks and most alcohol - this is probably what enabled you to burn fat from your waist.

The scales may catch up with the inches loss - there is a lag sometimes
However, your body composition - %muscle vs % bodyfat - will have improved already

Well done on your No Snacking NSV, bug
There is no need to give up eating out - it can be as healthy as homemade - without the prep & washing up !

Just make sensible choices in where you go and what you eat & drink:
Always order veg sides, maybe a green salad with lemon / vinegar starter and go easy on the bread basket.
Avoid deep fried food.
Stay within NHS alcohol guidelines - drink water as well

Handmini Weekend treats are a good idea
Just have them - and alcohol - as part of a meal
Then you have lovely weekends which won't sabotage your hard work during the week

OP posts:
Ta1kinPeece · 15/11/2017 21:25

Just a reminder
NO SNACKING
Not ever
Not on Fast days
Not on binge days
Not on sensible days
If you can remove snacking from your routine completely for the rest of your life, everything else will start to fall into place.
Snacking was invented in the 1970s
Lets see if we can "uninvent" it.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/11/2017 21:38

moho I downloaded the Fast Exercise book as soon as it became available. So, I've thoroughly digested it.
The science is exciting, leading edge ways to improve fitness, health and help resolve some insulin metabolism issues
All in just a few minutes on 3-5 days per week, ideal for those with v little time.

I discuss the science behind HIIT and Mosely's "Fat Blasts" in the the OP on our 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #33*
Have a look, see if there are any Fat Blasts you haven't tried - also lots of advice there on more conventional fitness exercises.

Personally, I added a set of sprint intervals to my routine on Sat or Sun - several intervals of 6 secs sprint / 6 secs jog - which follows the Fast Exercise principal
I plan to add a weekly 2 mins set of deep squats or lunges
I can't add much more really - I already train hard 5-6 days per week, mostly lifting or HIIT spin

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 15/11/2017 21:40

Well done, Wednesday fasters Flowers

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 15/11/2017 21:41

Oh and no snacks today Grin
Didn't have the Greek yoghurt after tea just a handful of raspberries. Finished on 1500 ish cals so slightly over what I wanted but had decent meals

BigChocFrenzy · 15/11/2017 21:56

Sounds a good day, Ollivander - I hope the interview went well too.

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 15/11/2017 21:58

It did (I think!)
Planning similar food tomorrow, probably
Lunch - scrambled eggs and mushrooms
Tea - beef stew and veg

Bestbees · 16/11/2017 07:31

Sounds like lots of progress here.

FD for me today so going to keep busy.

Thanks gor the ofsted visit vibes. Not coming back today so assuming that means we are good!

Really working on not snacking on my NFD. I know this is what undoes my good work so trying. I find it hard as i eat with kids a 5ish and then breakfast is such a long way!

Ta1kinPeece · 16/11/2017 08:41

bestbees
Do you brush your teeth right after supper (as well as before bed) ?
the strong taste of mint kills the flavour of most foods so reduces snacking :-)

Glad Ofsted went back under their rock.

HLBug · 16/11/2017 09:12

Checking in for my Thursday FD. Dinner of Spanish Chicken planned for tonight. Will hopefully be able to fill up on water / tea until then. May have a sneaky omelette if desperate though.

CeciledeVolanges · 16/11/2017 09:26

Congratulations HLBug! And thanks everyone who posted kind messages or advice, I feel much more hopeful now. I have been keeping a food diary and my actual triggers aren't boredom, but anxiety/pressure and sadness, especially with the short days, so I think I need to combine just fasting with getting out and doing more distracting things and also with getting early nights and more sleep. My first FD is pencilled in as Saturday (unusual I know, but I will be working that day). Thank you all again!

OuchBollocks · 16/11/2017 11:19

I wasn't planning on fasting today really but its almost half 11 and I've not eaten yet, and I have a ton of stuff to do to keep me occupied, so I might have one after all. It depends on the weather - I'm flying to visit family and if its turbulent I will be having a glass of wine Blush

BigChocFrenzy · 16/11/2017 11:29

bestbees 5pm to breakfast gives you a really good fast overnight, basically daily 14:10, which would boost loss
However, if you can't hold out, then don't "snack" - instead have a healthy minimeal, e.g. soup and an open sandwich

tip and I have the same trick: Always after your last planned meal, drink a glass of water, then clean your teeth. Floss too and use mouthwash, if those are your habits.
The fresh taste and clean mouth feel discourages later nibbling or wine

Cecile I often have a Saturday FD, because it cuts down on weekend sabotage of a careful week, as well as giving more time for chores and gym.
I also hate the short days, but I find evening training really cheers me up - I belong to a nice friendly gym, not fancy, but with good music, classes and weights area

OP posts:
Bestbees · 16/11/2017 11:44

Thabks for the tips! Will try tooth brushing. Also thinkni should up good fats in my meals so that i feel super sated and theb less tempted hopefully!

peachypips · 16/11/2017 18:05

Hi all. FD finished here. 50 cals milk, 44cals cuppa soup, 37 cals rich tea, big salad of lettuce, cucumber and pickled onions with a two egg omelette.

Tired and grumpy due to a too long day yesterday so early night here.

Bestbees · 16/11/2017 18:54

Kitchen closed. Well done peachypips!

Cucumber with marmite at lunch time. Salmon n veg for dinner. Accidental half piece of toast with peanut butter with kids. Still not bad and hoping to be under tomorrow.

Ta1kinPeece · 16/11/2017 19:31

NFD here so DH and I had breakfast for supper : full on English (eggs, bacon, sausage, black pudding, tomato, mushrooms, rosti, poached eggs, bread and butter) t'was lush
but still no booze Halo

HLBug · 16/11/2017 19:50

FD done Smile powered on through and just had Spanish Chicken for dinner, yum.

Ollivander84 · 16/11/2017 20:05

Kitchen closed. Managed 16:8 today

CroakingCrocus · 16/11/2017 20:39

Kitchen closed as well. Had been planning one meal but met a friend for lunch but managed to get away with a 200 calorie salad and a black coffee.

Drinking fizzy water and watching Dynasty.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/11/2017 20:47

Well done on your FD, peachy, bestbees, tip, bug, croaking

and on your 14:10, Ollivander - I'm rooting for you to get a really good offer after you nailed that interview yesterday

Well done also to tip and anyone else who are staying dry this November - halfway there already !
My 1st Christmas looks like being 13 December, so my 1.5 months of no-added-sugar ends then - yummy dessert menu at the restaurant we booked Smile
Afterwards, we'll visit the Christmas Market, so I'm looking forward to that evening

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/11/2017 20:47

my 1st Chrismas celebration

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 16/11/2017 20:49

More jobs applied for tonight! I really want some Greek yoghurt and berries, should have had it straight after my meal Angry
It'll keep for breakfast tomorrow Smile

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