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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Bestbees · 17/11/2017 06:31

Another pound off so 9.13 this morning!

HLBug · 17/11/2017 09:03

Man, progress is slooooow at the moment Confused I’ve only lost 4 pounds in the last 5 weeks...which I know is probably the average...but compared to my previous 2-3 pounds per week it’s torturous! But I’m feeling great and my skin is fab with all the water and sleep, so that’s something.

STS this week Sad However I am a bit constipated so maybe there’s a pound of poo stuck somewhere?

Desperate to see a 10...the scales have been taunting me with 11st 0lb for about 2 weeks now!!

1moreRep · 17/11/2017 09:10

so weekly weigh in and another 0.5 kg off! i’m very happy at the moment

Bestbees · 17/11/2017 09:13

How frustrating HL! Howeber an over all downward trend is good. Do u think you are eating back calories on NFD or just slwoing as you approach a healtheir weight?

I am have fish and chips for supper so planning on eating as little as possible during the day. Have had toast and pnb and an apple for breakfast after fasting yesterday. Might make a low cal veg soup if i need it.

New mini target for me in 9.10.

Good luck any friday fasters!

purpleviolet1 · 17/11/2017 09:22

9st 11.6lbs Grin loving it. Not had a FD this week for various reasons. Feel motivated to have one today. Not been drinking enough water so really need to crack down on that today. Feel as if I have a UTI.

We are going to Fuerteventura on Tuesday for 5 days. Any tips?

HLBug · 17/11/2017 09:24

I think I’m just averaging out best - I knew my body couldn’t sustain 2-3lb loss per week for too much longer. I’ve been on 5:2 since July and have lost 26 pounds in that time (so nearly at the 2 stone lost point). My BMI is 26.4 so I’m not quite at ‘healthy’ weight, but definitely already at my ‘normal’ weight so I guess my body is just readjusting? Some/slow progress is better than no progress though!

HLBug · 17/11/2017 09:27

purple when we went on holiday a few months ago I didn’t do any FDs but did try and do 16:8 or 14:10 most days. BCF also advises us to have our first FD planned for when you get back so you don’t keep putting it off. Days when you’re traveling can sometimes be a good chance to do a FD or mini FD as airplane food is so off putting and you’re generally busy over mealtimes anyway. Enjoy the sunshine** - I’m jealous!!

Motheroffourdragons · 17/11/2017 10:04

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Ollivander84 · 17/11/2017 11:36

I have a job offer Grin not great money but it's money! From the interview yesterday

BigChocFrenzy · 17/11/2017 11:40

Congratulations, Ollivander If that's enough to pay your bills - and those for your hungry horses - it lets you catch your breath for a year or two.
Always better to look for a job when you already have one that brings in sufficient, so you aren't under so much pressure.

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 17/11/2017 11:43

My appeal is going in about my dismissal as well. I'm going to keep looking, mainly because I've applied for another 10 jobs Grin so see if anything else comes up

BigChocFrenzy · 17/11/2017 11:48

bug If that's your "normal" weight, then you've probably reached a set point that your body resists going under.
You've already got the great SV of 26lb lost, so you are doing well to be still losing nearly 1lb weekly in all those circs.

Just be patient & persistent and your body will eventually realise you mean business.
You'll see 10 stone something
What should help:

  • Boost water !
    Start each day with a glass and aim for 2l - fizz doesn't count here

  • No snacking ever between meals

  • Have at least 20 mins walk daily or some other exercise

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/11/2017 11:57

Well done on your SV, 1more and bestbees
Good luck for your next mini-targets.

Enjoy your holiday, purple and yoour WE mother of four
bug knows most of our standard holiday tips by heart Smile

I'd also add:

  • Post here - before you leave - which day will be your 1st FD on your return - this can reinforce your willpower and we send the scary mob after you
  • Keep to the no snacking between meals
  • Keep drinking lots of water. purple doesn't do alcohol, but mother try to stay within NHS guidelines
  • Take any opportunities for swimming, beachball, running, walking, horse-riding etc
OP posts:
HLBug · 17/11/2017 12:10

Aww I knew you were going to suggest exercise... Wink You're right though - maternity leave has turned me into such a lazy bum, I really need to do more. I need to have a chat with DH about him looking after the kids more in the evenings so I can get out to the gym again.

houseRefurb · 17/11/2017 12:27

Hello e'one, A lurker and a wannabe 5:2-er here...Smile
Such a great thread..Thanks to everyone here who share your experiences and tips. You do a great favour to souls like myself who need a holding hand often Smile

I have outdone my snacking habit big time over the last month..!!!
Thanks for the reminders here on that. It does feel so much better to eat properly than to graze !! It feels more like a treat !

Now on to doing 5:2 properly. Did it well 2.5 yrs ago, but then slipped and now determined to get back. Have been doing some weights and training over the last 4 months. Starting to use MFP again.

Any recommendations on kitchen scales that can measure really small quantities. And how do you all measure the calories for things like eg., 1 tsp of miso paste?

peachypips · 17/11/2017 14:39

Well done dry people and go Olli!! I'm sure a new job is just round the corner.

Big success here. I was in hospital last year for two months and came out in time for Christmas. When I started SW in Jan I weighed 13 st 8 pounds. I lost 8 pounds with SW. Then I lost a stone on the 8wk blood sugar diet. Moved on from this (as recommended by the 8wkBSD) to 5:2. This is the good bit- I weighed myself today for the first time since really buckling down to 5:2. Have lost half a stone. As of today weighing in at 11st 7 pounds. YAY!

I'm very motivated to keep going now! I haven't dared weigh myself as I know it puts me off, but I could tell I'd lost so I weighed.

Ta1kinPeece · 17/11/2017 15:02

purple
We are going to Fuerteventura on Tuesday for 5 days. Any tips?
Watch what the locals do .....
Nowhere near as much alcohol as the Brits
No snacking
One medium, one tiny and one proper meal per day.
Walk everywhere you can rather than drive.
Try to make sure you have a decent amount of veg in every big meal (Tapas type meals, go for the beans and tomato dishes rather than all fried)

Ollivander84 · 17/11/2017 15:05

Second job offer just coming in Shock

HLBug · 17/11/2017 15:41

So much good news! Ollivander you are on fire!! Check you out - congratulations! And well done peachy - your hard work is definitely paying off.

Welcome house, it sounds like you’ve already got the basics nailed!

purpleviolet1 · 17/11/2017 18:50

Thanks for the tips

That’s great ollivander! Hope you can negotiate now that you have two offers Grin

FD gone well today apart from the fact that mind has been on food. Had about 50cals worth of carrot soup early afternoon. Just at the shops (waiting for Argos collection) and then going home to enjoy some mince and potato curry. Really in the mood for desert Hmm but will resist.

Early night for me.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/11/2017 19:51

Welcome, house Smile
Yup, I suggest your first step should be to retrain yourself out of the snacking habit.
No snacks between meals, ever
Not even "healthy" snacks like fruit or veg
No booze between meals, either
That doesn't mean giving up treats or booze: just have them as part of an NFD meal

re checking calories for FDs:
mfp seems pretty good
If you have bought a jar or packet of something, then look at the label for what is in 100g or 100 ml, measure the amount you want and do your sums Smile
Remember, 1 level teasp is 5 ml, 1 level tbsp is 15 ml - not heaped ones
Also, don't get caught out and assume 1 packet or jar = 1 "serving size" - some packets are ridiculous, containing 1.5 or 2.5 portions.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/11/2017 19:53

That's great ollivander, 2 offers and waiting for 8 more replies.
That's a weight off your mind, so you can concentrate again on getting weight off your bod too Wink

OP posts:
HLBug · 18/11/2017 11:43

So, the scales might be stuck on 11st 0lb (double checked again this morning Confused) but I am feeling ace in my size 10 black skinnies today Grin Happy Saturday everyone!!

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites
peachypips · 18/11/2017 13:07

Make sure you choose the job with the nicest people rather than anything else. Good colleagues and line managers make for a happier life I think!

Wow HLBug - you look awesome! I'm not far behind you so looking to you for inspiration.

NFD today and tomorrow.

purpleviolet1 · 18/11/2017 13:56

HLBug you look amazing!

Stood on scales this morn - was FD yesterday. And was 9st 10 GrinGrinGrin

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