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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Motheroffourdragons · 14/11/2017 08:17

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Motheroffourdragons · 14/11/2017 08:18

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Ta1kinPeece · 14/11/2017 08:38

Mother
If both you and your DH are doing it then life gets easier.
My DH is built like a brick outhouse and I have a rugby playing teen so there is lots of high calories food in the house
BUT
Fast days -
Spanish omelettes can be bulked out with astounding amounts of veg to leave you utterly stuffed
Normal omelettes made with lashings of onion and sweated kale and then some REALLY spicy salami
Vegetable stir fry with fish or chicken strips on top
Hefty soups (the fresh tub ones from the shop, have a whole tub each with a hunk of nice bread
If in doubt, add spice as strongly flavoured food fills you up quicker
Hot salads : a bed of lettuce and then slices of oily hot smoked fish and croutons and a heap of grilled veg

And as for snacking / grazing in the day : if the kids are old enough not to need a post school snack .... why are you buying that junk ???? Grin

Get your youngest to make a "kitchen closed" sign for between meals.
Its tough, but its doable Smile

Motheroffourdragons · 14/11/2017 08:44

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HLBug · 14/11/2017 09:42

FD for me today - have a few errands to run so hopefully that’ll help fill the day. And yes to PPs who are feeling the cold more on FDs!! We had our first flurry of sleet yesterday and it’s freeeeeezing!

Welcome to all the new recruits Smile

Collectorofcookbooks · 14/11/2017 10:10

Morning all

Charged through my fast day yesterday, but rather than having breakfast and dinner I ended up eating at lunchtime and dinner - didn't feel the benefits so much. BUT today I got on the scales - it's a week and a day since I started and I've lost 5lbs! Super happy.

Got this big do tonight so off bread and anything bloaty - lots of water and veg to keep me going til swanky dinner. The advantage of a close fitting dress is that there's not much room for food Grin

Just realised I forgot to measure my waist this morning, but it does feel like my waist is starting to reappear.

Motheroffourdragons · 14/11/2017 11:37

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Ta1kinPeece · 14/11/2017 12:27

Since the start of the month I've lost 3 lb
Not much but my BMI is under 22
however
All I have changed is cutting way down on the booze.
Depressing but true
Alcohol makes you fat Sad

peachypips · 14/11/2017 12:47

Hi all- not been on for a couple of days and have just spent some of my lunch break catching up!

I am cold on FDs too- we also have a wood burner and it's invaluable. I'm currently working in my gym's cafe quiet room as it's warmer than at home!

I am more like BCF in that I'm not an emotional eater but I love the taste of food so much that I overeat. I'm a real food-lover.

All on track here- it's taken me a couple of weeks to get into the swing of it but I can finally say that I am finding FDs easy now. FD today- 50ml milk, one 44 cal soup so far. Veg lasagne with enormous salad for dinner. I daren't weigh myself as I'm afraid I won't have lost anything and then it will put me off. I'm going to wait until the end of Nov to weigh.

Had a lovely NFD yesterday- lunch out with DH for the first time in ages. Had a steak sandwich with chutney, salad and French fries. Normally a lunch like that would send me into a binge but I just had a very light salad for dinner and a square of darkest chocolate and that was it. So finished under TDEE!

This diet is really helping me to recalibrate my appetite. I'm so happy with it! I really hope I can lose weight doing this as it's the only diet I can ever see myself doing for life. I love it.

purpleviolet1 · 14/11/2017 13:48

Hi all, welcome to the newbies and great loss collector!

I’m enjoying eating when hungry opposed to just for the sake of it, and feel so much lighter , not as bloated etc. I don’t think I realised I was bloated as I had got used to eating that way but now I can feel the difference.

Unfortunately I had a late night last night (midnight) and feel exhausted today. Usually I’m in bed for 9ish asleep for 10 at the latest. More recently I have been focusing on getting more sleep and feeling good for it.

I have attempted a FD today but just feel groggy, hungry and sore head so I’m thinking of ditching it and trying again tomorrow. I’m realllllly craving chocolate truffles and super tempted to make them Blush would that be terrible?

purpleviolet1 · 14/11/2017 17:55

Made the truffles.... had a couple.....have lentil curry and chapatti for dinner.

Tomorrow is a new day.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2017 19:02

Welcome motherof4 Smile
Excellent that your DH has joined you; makes life much easier if you can have FDs together
btw, Blokes can have 600-800cal FDs .... and still usually lose more quickly

AAARGH, biology is a sexist bugger Grin

Already in healthy BMI, with not much to lose, your progress will probably be a bit slower than average, but be sensible of NFDs and you'll get to goal.

no snacking, ever - it really helps control weight and hunger

Expanding / Flabby tum ?

  1. If you drink quite a bit of alcohol and / or sweet treats - cake, biscuits, crumble, donuts ... these are the worst Calories from these are preferentially stored as fat around the midsection Even if you get away with it when young, it usually catches up with you as the years pass

Reommendations:
Keep to NHS alcohol guidelines
Keep sweet treats to one sensible portion, once per day and not on every NFD
-try 2:5ing treats, i.e. only have them on 2 NFDs per week

2) Exercising with joint problems:
Don't do the exercises that cause pain / injury.
Avoid running - the load on your joints is very high and also repetitive
Also avoid treadmills and elliptical trainers
Try cycling / spin class, or swimming / water aerobics for cardio

Also, do resistance training.
Try pump, pilates or certain kinds of yoga.
Avoid bootcamp, spartan, crossfit as they tend to be frenetic and tough on joints

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2017 19:04

Everyone: In dry weather, everyone try to have at least a 20-minute walk outside on none-training days

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2017 19:10

Congrats on your SV, collector Excellent start

Congrats on your SV too, tip
I cross-posted about alcohol !

Well done, purple, peachy on eating habit NSVs

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2017 19:17

mother On FDs, my main meal is salmon fillet with skin, a huge mixed salad, lemon, balsamic vinegar, drizzle of olive oil

Alternatives: stir fry with prawns (perfect low cal protein for FDs) or egg
Curries or stews - I recommend a small (max 100 g cooked weight) of quinoa or brown rice

OP posts:
MohoBoho · 14/11/2017 19:18

Hello, can I join too? I would really like to lose at least a stone. I did the 5:2 a couple of years ago, and full of enthusiasm lost about one and a half stone but it’s slowly crept back on. I’ve tried to start the FD again, but keep failing. I can do it on Tuesdays as I’m very busy width various activities and DH cooks the evening meal, but have no discipline the rest of the time - I can snack for England on just about anything! I’m hoping your support might help to keep me on track ..... I’ve nearly given up wine during the week Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2017 19:19

bug < shudders at sleet > Have a mug of hot Bovril ?

OP posts:
peachypips · 14/11/2017 19:27

Like the idea of a 20 min walk every day. I work from home and my line manager is on a wellness and productivity drive and has suggested I do this at lunchtime as well. Also we now stand for much of our working day which is so much better for you.

Finished today on around 500 cals- milk 50, cuppa soup 44, a biscuit Blush37, aubergine and pepper lasagne 400 ish. Rich tea biscuits are very low in calories I have discovered

Getting up at 4am to get to London with work tomorrow. Very glad it's not a FD as I'd run out of steam for sure!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2017 19:28

Welcome, Moho Smile
Well done on cutting down the booze. Your liver is rejoicing.

Can you DH cook the meal on another day too, for your FD ?
You could keep busy tha5 day by say making it your day to do chores, or your day for longer exercise classes

You are right about highlighting your snacking habit: that usually makes weight loss more difficukt.
Why not make this your next big change:
Eat 3-4 meals per day, nothing between.
Any treats, booze, lattes etc even fruit or veg, should only be as part of a meal
If the change is too much at once, start with 2 NFDs weekly

On FDs:
. Plan your full menu the day before
. Keep drinking water - fizz can spike hunger in some folk
. Cut snacks out totally and see if you can have just coffee or tea for breakfast. Then either just have supper, or split your cals into lunch & supper

OP posts:
peachypips · 14/11/2017 19:29

Also hi new people/returning people!

Were the truffles worth it purple

MohoBoho · 14/11/2017 19:34

Bigchoc
Thank you for those great tips and advice - feeling reenergised!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2017 19:34

Oh horrors - a 4am start, peachy
You'll probably want to skip breakfast then, but make sure you have access to something sensible - not sweet muffins etc - to break your fast. Even a cheese sarnie, quick & easy

Good news that your manager is pushing fitness - makes it easier to go for lunchtime walks
Standing instead of sitting at a desk can also help your abs and fitness level

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 14/11/2017 20:31

Peachypips they were totally worth it Grin I think I’ve stayed within NFD calories but not sure....

Getting into bed now

OuchBollocks · 14/11/2017 20:33

Glad they were worth it. Nothing worse than a calorie bomb that falls far short of delicious :)

purpleviolet1 · 14/11/2017 20:34

I’ve grazed today though, so probably had insulin spikes all day Sad

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