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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
OuchBollocks · 14/11/2017 20:46

Today is done purple, don't dwell on it

BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2017 21:21

purple if you stayed within TDEE, that's ok
The worst thing about snacks is that they tend to increase total cals

OP posts:
Motheroffourdragons · 14/11/2017 21:36

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Motheroffourdragons · 14/11/2017 21:38

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Ta1kinPeece · 14/11/2017 21:46

I stuffed my face on home made curry for supper tonight
(and had Reeves pastry for lunch)
so probably at the upper end of TDEE
but no booze so still feeling in control

Booze and snacking ...... result is thick waist

Bestbees · 14/11/2017 21:55

Easy fd here as so manic, ofsted in tomorrow so barely thought about eating at all!

BigChocFrenzy · 15/11/2017 00:19

What matters for longterm weight and health management is developing good habits that you can sustain longterm
What happens on any individual day along the way is unimportant

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 15/11/2017 00:34

Minor weight gain. I'm putting it down to lack of routine, stress of loss of job, snacking and not drinking enough water. Must do better!
Interview tomorrow and another 3 jobs applied for

peachypips · 15/11/2017 05:49

Sitting on station listening to owls FFS. No-one should be up this early. Had oats with nuts for brekkie and a coffee to keep me awake in the car on way to station.

Ofsted ugh. My school had theirs last wk (am a gov). Hope it goes well and isn't too stressful.

Hope job interviews go well Olli.

Looking forward to a nice lunch today- conference is at the RC of Psychs and they always have great food- I guess they ought to really! Normally very GI and lots of fish. Wonderful! Have a great day everyone and happy fasting to the FD folks.

peachypips · 15/11/2017 06:12

Oh and I wanted to ask something- I am having real probs with constipation. Any advice?

Bestbees · 15/11/2017 07:03

Peachy, lots of fibre on NFD?

BigChocFrenzy · 15/11/2017 07:46

Good luck with your job interviews, Ollivander
It's natural with all the stress that you forgot some of your recent improved eating habits.
However, try to focus on your wellbeing now - boost water and cut out snacks.
You'll soon be back on track then.

Peachy For constipation:

  • Aim to drink 1.5l, preferably 2l water per day, FDs and NFDs - tea counts, but don't count fizz (except fizzy water) towards this, because of the added nasties like sodium benzoate

  • Boost fibre - veg - get your 5 a day - and especially beans, peas, lentils
    Swap your starches for versions with less processing and more fibre, e.g. rye bread, brown rice, potato with skin, steelcut oats or oatbran instead of instant.
    For fruit with edible skin, always eat the skin, lots of vitamins in that.

  • Exercise. Don't let any day (when you are well) be completely sedentary.
    Aim for at least 20 mins walk, or other exercise and build up to 10k steps.

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 15/11/2017 08:23

Hello to the new 5:2ers / returners.

If your struggling to do a fast day just keep with it. I was having a issue a month or so ago when I fell off the wagon spectacularly and just could not fast. Tried everyday for a week with no success.

I found posting here helped as when I said I was attempting a FD I didn’t want to come back on that night and say I failed. For me I think it’s all in the mind and the right mindset for it. I find posting regularly keeps me focused.

Peachy - I used to suffer terribly with constapation. I tried all BCFs tips, took to the internet and tried all the seeds that are supposed to help and nothing did. I ended up having to take heavy duty constapation tablet to clear it. But it sorted its self all out in the end. I haven’t changed anything and I don’t take the tablets or seeds anymore. For me I tend to get it with a change of diet. Anytime I start a new one / go away on holiday and eat different food it effects me.

Good luck to today’s fasters

purpleviolet1 · 15/11/2017 09:28

NFD today. Lot going on just now, we all have colds as well so looking after myself.

SingingGoldfinch · 15/11/2017 09:50

Yikes! Hope all goes well with Ofsted Bees! Have experience of the turmoil this causes from time as a Governor so you have my sympathies! All the best!

FD here. Had quite a 'naughty' good day yesterday - met a friend who's recently had a baby for lunch - she's exhausted and demanded I joined her in comfort food! I had a big cheesy toasty followed by a slab of cake. Then dh made his signature pasta dish for tea which I covered in Parmesan! All very lovely but feel in need of a fd today. Soup and a rice cake for lunch then bean chilli for tea. Good luck all weds fasters!!

SingingGoldfinch · 15/11/2017 09:52

Just re-read my op - it should have read 'naughty' food (not good) day - and realised it also sounds like I have a friend who's recently eaten a baby for lunch - hoping you'll know what I actually mean!

missludgatecircus · 15/11/2017 11:08

hi gang, haven't been on here much but just wanted to let you all know I had my wedding dress fitting on Saturday and it fits amazingly! I didn't need to let it out at the waist at all, and in fact needed to take it in at the hips. now to just keep my 5:2 going until the wedding day on 3 December!

Strangely, I have not seen much movement on the scale, I still hover around 59.5kg to 59.9kg, but clearly my waist has shrunk and my belly is definitely less flabby!

I've also significantly cut back on wine - only a glass once a week in the past two weeks and intend to keep that up until the wedding. I planned to have no wine at all but we have some celebration drinks tomorrow with my finance's work people so will have a glass of Champagne at that.

I've also found it easier and easier to not snack, or eat bread mindlessly (the cafe at work gives free samples every morning with various spreads and jams).

Fasting today and have just had coffee with almond milk so far. Stay strong Wednesday fasters!

Motheroffourdragons · 15/11/2017 11:28

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

HLBug · 15/11/2017 13:54

missludgate that’s fantastic! Not long until the “big day” now, you must be so excited Smile

NFD for me today and I’ve just had a cheese and apple sandwich for lunch - a complete roll back to my childhood and it was completely delicious.

I finally got around to watching that “secrets of slim people” Ch4 documentary last night. Really interesting but I couldn’t believe the woman had a TDEE of 2300!! I was very jealous.

Avoiding snacks and not eating out seemed to really make a big difference* to those being studied - I’m finally used to no snacking, but eating out is such a treat and I’d really struggle to happily and willingly cut back (not that I do it loads, but definitely a couple of times a week, at least). Same goes for making dinner from scratch every night...maybe when the kids are older that will become easier,* but for just now easy oven food takes priority most nights Confused

HLBug · 15/11/2017 13:55

Random bold there...not sure how that happened - sorry for being shouty!!

HandMini · 15/11/2017 14:07

Hi all - thanks for the encouragement. It's lovely to check in and know others are doing FDs.

I am today.

MissLudgate - I am the same, hover around the same weight despite five weeks now of 5:2. But despite that, definitely feeling the benefits of overall feeling leaner and less bloated.

BigChoc - I think you are right that I am eating back my FD deficit (particularly at the weekends). Am going to limit all my snacks/treats to weekend now, so I will do Mon and Wed as FDs; Tue, Thur and Fri as NFDs but with no snacks/treats/wine and Sat and Sun as NFDs with a treat or two.

Stay strong Fasters!

SingingGoldfinch · 15/11/2017 15:13

Handmini - your plan for two FDs, then the other week days as sensible nfds and allowing yourself the odd treat at the weekend is pretty much my approach and it's worked well so far. I've found that I don't think about treats/snacks etc in the week anymore and have far fewer at the weekend than I used to but I don't deny myself them - I just don't find I want them as much!

Amazing SV on the wedding dress MissLudgate!! I bet you looked fabulous! A wonderful boost in the run up to your big day! How exciting!!!!!

MohoBoho · 15/11/2017 15:27

Is anybody here doing Fast Exercise as well as 5:2? I have started the HIIT on my exercise bike as suggested in the Fast Exercise book by MM, it’s ok, I can do it in ordinary clothes and amazingly don’t get hot and sweaty - just rather breathless! Not sure if it working or not - my timer congratulates me on 11 minutes of Exercise - when in fact it’s only 3 x 20 seconds with light pedalling in between...... Would love to hear if anyone else is giving this a go.

Ollivander84 · 15/11/2017 16:06

Today has been ok Smile
Protein shake at 11.30am (couldn't face solid food before interview!)
Prawns and salad in a wrap at 3pm
Tea is going to be beef stew and steamed veg, possibly some Greek yoghurt and raspberries after

HLBug · 15/11/2017 16:56

Hope interview went well Ollivander

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