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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 68: You don't have to be in control to start, but you can start to be in control. You can do this. Go for it !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 19/05/2017 22:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 15/07/2017 18:26

Well done on your SV and 5:2 anniversary, duck
My FD is tomorrow

That's good progress with NFDs, woo More protein will help keep you feeling full

Vegetarian options to boost protein:

  • Cheese
  • Natural Greek yoghurt - the full fat is nicer, imo
  • Beans of all kinds (kidney / black / pinto, chickpeas ..), hummus, lentils, peas Have beans with rice, or hummus with pitabread, to get the perfect protein combination
  • chia seeds are high in protein & are an antioxidant powerhouse, as I posted earlier. Try adding a tbsp to porridge. You'll need plenty of liquid, because the seeds absorb a lot
  • Nuts, seeds, pnut butter, almond butter
  • quinoa, buckwheat are good choices for your starchy carbs, because they are higher in protein than most starches
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/07/2017 10:16

Morning all Smile
Anyone else with a Sunday FD ?

OP posts:
OuchBollocks · 16/07/2017 10:23

Not here! Went to a food festival yesterday, prepared to kiss my TDEE goodbye, only managed kofta and salad for lunch before it tipped it down then felt odd in the evening. Early bed no dinner. So am really rather hungry today :)

HLBug · 16/07/2017 22:13

Oh that's a shame you're day didn't turn out for the best Ouch - at least it was a good good day though!! I have been soooooo bloody good today. I've been out for lunch and dinner, but nevertheless have ended on circa 1300 kcals. My god though, went to zizzis for tea and that was HARD. Everyone tucking into 3 course menu...whilst I had a skinny 520ish kcal pizza and a Diet Coke. Rock n Roll...!!

HLBug · 16/07/2017 22:13

Bleugh your day - not you're

wonderwoo · 16/07/2017 22:47

Thank you for the vegetarian protein advice BCF

Well done bug, very restrained!

BigChocFrenzy · 16/07/2017 23:23

Well done on your impressive restraint, bug
Sounds like you still enjoyed the 2 meals out and the social occasions, which is good training for your longterm WOL.

I hope you felt better today, ouch and went gently on your tum.

OP posts:
wonderwoo · 17/07/2017 07:17

Fourth FD for me today. I am actually looking forward to it!

I lost approx 3.5 lbs in my first ten days. Pretty good considering i had two binges that took me way over TDEE. I have also lost and inch off my waist already! Smile

How does everyone measure their waist? Seems a silly question but i have been doing the narrowest part of my torso (near the very bottom of my ribcage), but the BSD book mentions measuring around the belly button which is a fair bit lower.

Good luck to all FD people today.

quckingduck22 · 17/07/2017 07:44

Well done woo that's fantastic.

I've been measuring my waist as under bust but realized 2 weeks ago that's not right so I'm now doing my smallest part that's probably midway between bust and tummy.

I measure bust, under bust, now I do waist, tummy along belly button, hips and bum.

Not sure what's going on with me but I seem to be loosing on my NFD and gaining on my FDs it's happened twice this week.

Another inch off my thighs this week. I'm astonished with that as would you believe that's 8 inches in 9 weeks. I only started measuring 9 weeks ago rather than 3 months but honestly my mind is blown. I bought another pair of shorts yesterday non stretchy and they are again a size 8. So in the same shop in 3 months I've gone from a 14 to a 8. I think it may be just that shop as I think they are generous sizes but I'm amazed.

I've got 2 meals out this week so hoping I don't upset the scales to much.

Good luck to any fasters today

Sarahlouboo · 17/07/2017 07:45

Hi everyone. Well done on resisting temptation Bug! I just about managed to stay within TDEE this weekend, even though I had a moment with some chocolate mini rolls Blush!

FD today. Can't say I am thrilled at the prospect but four weeks until my holiday now - future self will thank me I am sure!

Sarahlouboo · 17/07/2017 07:48

That's amazing Duck!

Well done on the SV and new measurements Wonderwoo. I measure just above the belly button where my waist is smallest.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/07/2017 08:27

Congrats on your SV, woo and a good start

Well done too on your inches and shorts NSV, duck
Amazing reduction in bodyfat around the thighs, a problem area for most women

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/07/2017 08:33

There are no silly questions here, woo and many folk have asked about measuring.
The differences you see online are probably because men & women need to measure waist at different places.

How to Measure Yourself

Suggested time:

  • Every xx weeks (your choice), but on the NFD after FD2, first thing in the morning before you have eaten or drunk anything.
  • Good time to weigh, too.

First ntbo, do NOT
. suck anything in
. or clench your buttocks
. or take a deep breath and hold it
. or pull the tape tightly- it's not a corset !

  • Picture shows where to place tape
  • Make sure tape is horizontal around your body - not sloping - for waist or hips

Waist
. women - the narrowest point, above the navel
. men - around the navel

Hips (women only)
. Choose the widest hip measurement.
. This position may be above or below the hip bones.

Thighs
. Choose the widest measurement.

Neck (if you want to do bodyfat calculation)
. Place the tape at the narrowest point of the neck, sloping slightly down to the front.
. The tape is NOT horizontal for this

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/07/2017 08:40

Focus on your holiday, sarah
Also, decide now: when the the 1st FD will be after you return - write it down as a fixed date !

OP posts:
OuchBollocks · 17/07/2017 08:54

You can do it Sarah! Reaching mini-goals feels great.

I wanted to be 13st 7 for my birthday next week, and was at 13st7 when I weighed the other day. Woohoo :) My next mini-goal is to be under 13st by the time I go to centerparcs in 2 months.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/07/2017 10:03

Good progress, ouch and good luck for your next minigoal Smile

OP posts:
Sarahlouboo · 17/07/2017 10:13

Yes Ouch congrats on reaching one of your goals! Very satisfying.

Thanks for the encouragement guys. I always feel grumpy at the prospect of no breakfast but I will even grumpier if I spend my holiday feeling self conscious.

On holidays - does anyone try and keep a FD or do you just enjoy and then stick that date in the calendar for your return?

Sarahlouboo · 17/07/2017 10:14

Don't want to undo all my good work but the thought of a holiday with FDs makes me feel a bit sad!

wonderwoo · 17/07/2017 10:49

Thanks for the information on waist measurement BCF. I was doing it right it seems. Interesting to see that it is a different measurement for men and women.

Sarah I am no expert, being new to the game - but I think if its going to make you feel sad and hard-done-by, it won't be great for your ability to stick to the WOE long-term. A break for a week wouldn't cause a massive step back, as long as you start again as soon as you get home. You could also try and eat a bit mindfully on holiday without feeling like you are missing out, which would reduce the calories eaten/drunk. Just my opinion as a novice!

MerricatsHouse · 17/07/2017 12:48

FD today (Monday again already!), not in a great mood so feeling pretty tired out. I have done my first 20 min walk on the treadmill and about to go do my second soon. I am determined to do 10k steps a day from now on. With a bit of effort I used to manage it every day.

I do three measurements around my middle - waist at smallest point, hips and a midway measurement around the belly button. It's where most of my worst fat is gathered so I like to keep a close eye on it. My waist is pretty small (hourglass) so the fat isn't in that spot as much.

Good luck Monday fasters! (If anyone has any energy-increasing tips they would be greatly appreciated. I get enough sleep but could have slept through the whole weekend! Grin)

FireInTheDisco · 17/07/2017 14:50

Meericats does napping at your desk count?

Jumping on the thread to say I started up 5:2 again today. Did well on it a while back and posted on the old threads (have since NC'd) but fell off the wagon.

Fast day today and another planned for Thursday - finding day one hard!! Hope to see the amazing results you guys have been getting!

OuchBollocks · 17/07/2017 15:01

I'm gonna be fasting tomorrow I think. I was going to get DH to take me out to lunch before the preschool's end of year concert but he's pissing me off so I don't feel like it any more.

Energy tips? Er, drink lots of water, try to get at least 20 minutes of natural light ideally before 4pm each day, stay away from refined carbs, keep as close to your normal sleep schedule as possible at the weekend, go easy on caffeine and alcohol.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/07/2017 15:34

sarah I recommend against FDs during holiday, unless you feel too stuffed with food (I need the break of an FD or 2 if there is too much feasting)
The only suggestions I make are to avoid snacking and avoid exceeding the NHS alcohol limits

Welcome back, Fire Stay focused and you'll be back in the fasting swing within a week or two.
Remember the routine that worked for you before

Quite right, ouch He doesn't deserve a lunch date with you Wink

OP posts:
MerricatsHouse · 17/07/2017 15:53

Welcome Fire ! Napping at my desk sound nice, but doubtful I'd then wake up before home time Grin

I think ouch may have a good point, I do most of those things (good weekend sleep schedule, don't drink alcohol or much caffeine) but natural light is an issue. My office has no external windows so I don't really see the daylight. Need to start going for a wander a few times a day. On a positive note, I've felt way better since my second treadmill walk - a bit of exercise has always perked me up! And well on track for my 10K now.

Sarahlouboo · 17/07/2017 16:50

Thanks BCF I feel as though I have permission from the 5:2 guru to take a break from fast days on my holiday now! And thanks too to Wonderwoo, I think you are completely right, it has to be sustainable.

Hi Fire, I am finding today a struggle too, we can make it! I just googled something different to have for tea and came up with this www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/1263668/turkish-onepan-eggs-and-peppers-menemen%3Famp

Merricat no natural light sounds horrible, hope you are able to schedule in some walks to get some vitamin D! I always feel better after a little walk at lunchtime and need to do it more regularly.

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