The 5:2 thread number 38 -"Oh that this too, too solid flesh would melt" : Well, Hamlet, it can in a healthy, sustainable way. Join our friendly 5:2/IF support group"

[BigChocFrenzy]

The 5:2 thread number 36
The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.
The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.
By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.
You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.
WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.
MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.
TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.
NFD = Non fast day
NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory
Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!
Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and were a friendly bunch.
Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:
Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.
Tips and Links: Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!
Inspirational: eatriskiers thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.
Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!
Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.
Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.
Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.
This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.
This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.
This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body right body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.
A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")
Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this article appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise)
A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.
A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!
Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

I had a lovely cheese and cracker session this evening BC

Someone asked last night if I would have problems resuming intense training after my weeklong break:
No, I did 90 mins boxing with Tabata and felt full of energy, very refreshed.
I expect my Friday FD will go well too, after my 10-day fasting break.

This combined break was planned as part of my heathy 5:2 WOL

A short break at least every few months is advisable for intense exercisers, to let the body recuperate and to avoid staleness.
There is no loss of fitness, unlike what may happen when returning after illness or injury.

I didn't gain weight the 1st few days, then probably added a few lb after 10 days - not surprising with a net calorie difference of 15,000 (! including Frenzies).
From experience, these few lb will go after a couple of FDs.

Thanks, everyone. Sorry to hear about the awful weather there - hope you all come through it OK!

It's late afternoon/early eve here -- traditionally my WORST snacking time and I'm just drinking water. FD is going well tho I'm planning to eat something at dinner (haven't eaten anything yet today) b/c we are having people over. I'll keep it under 500 though.

Q: The last FD I found it difficult to go to sleep; I had so much energy at night! Was thinking a glass of milk might help... sorry vegans. :) Any advice?

and more for all your lovely, supportive comments.

I know it could've been worse; I didn't thump anyone, but I felt out of control and on the edge of fury all day; I was unreasonable and scary and punished my poor unwell babies for the terrible crime of being unwell and unreasonable!

We're all a little better today and I got some sleep! Hurrah! I'm expecting the post-viral euphoria to kick in any minute now.

Grub-wise, I seem to have ended up with a 550 FD on Monday, a sub TDEE Tues and yesterday, Day of Fury, 700cals of toast and tea...and a bottle of Benelyn with a whole slice of codeine.

So I'm claiming an 'I survived plague' NSV and will have only gentle NFDs from now right through till Monday when I hope I'll be well enough recovered and replenished to have my regular FD, if not I'll maybe have a day fast with a meal at night, just to get back in the swing.

Interesting dairy talk, I think we're all made differently, dairy seems to agree with me fine and I'm not sinus-y or mucus-y in general. Pasta, white bread and potatoes are a trigger for me so I do limit them (though excluding them completely made me intolerant and crampy when I re-introduced them even in moderation...and intolerant generally as life without bread was very dull indeed
But it's nice to know a milky drink when unwell is not a terrible mucus idea (unless you're dairy intolerant) as it's very comforting.

Anyhoo, thanks again all...hope all up North coping with the weather...who was it had their bay window blow in??? AAAAAH! Terrifying. It's blowing a gale and chucking it down here, has been since Christmas, but not too extreme in our village though lots have no power nearby.

Happy FD Thursday fasters, munch on NFD-ers.

Off to catch up on the thread now.

Good morning!

I've popped up a new thread just in case this one moves at rocket speed while I'm out of reach of my laptop.

Please use this one up first and if you find yourself here near the 990 post mark please feel free to pop up a big link alert to the new thread! Thank you all but strictly no as I'm fasting today .

Good to hear you're feeling better zed :)

Morning everyone, hope those who have/are sick are improving.

Think I am going to claim a NSV today.

I wear scrubs at work, I used to have to wear XXL or XL top &bottom. At my lowest weight last year I wore L top & Bottom.
Today I am wearing Medium bottoms! They are little snug around waist but not uncomfortable or tight around thighs and most importantly no camel toe!!!!

Yay Tigger that's brilliant!

I thought I was doing well when my old preggo PJ trousers HIT the bathroom floor this morning...but a medium wow, that's like being a regular person again instead of a specialist minority. Well done you.

No camels were harmed in this post.

Morning all. FD for me - two black coffees and a lot of water so far, done my exercises - but will be non-sedentary for part of the day later getting a heck of a lot of eucalyptus twigs/leaves off our lawn - there's a copse of them behind our house, ridiculous things for anyone to plant in Lancashire - mercifully none of them actually blew down (one did before xmas) but we've got a large branch of a conifer down over our fence and caught in one of our small trees so will have to help DH sort that out too. But no harm to life or limb (well, except tree limbs).

Hi fellow fasters.

Today, I'm about to do what I've never attempted before (and I've been fasting for over a year!) - I'm going to attempt hardcore exercise on the evening of a fast. AIBU?

::slinks back in::

Hello... I 5:2-ed last year,well the whole months of Feb, March, April, May and June and then er... stopped. I lost a good 11lbs I think (will have to look up my stats on thread #11 or something!) and I told myself I'd go to 6:1 but didn't and then life got a bit shitty and stressful towards the autumn/winter and guess what, it's all back on AND SOME. I need to lose 18/20 lbs. Hmm, that's going to take while isn't it?

So....will you help me keep going and bloody stick at it this time? Thank you

wombles I did 30 Day shred AND Davina fit in 15 on my FD and i felt great afterwards.

I don't know about doing it in the evening as I never exercise then - but I always do my shred and extra bits on FDs - last year was sometimes having a couple of miles run too, and quite often when the weather is good we might walk for an hour or more. I don't find that a problem at all.

Tiredemma I hope I'm the same. I'm nervous about fainting at the gym in front of everyone I'm going to attempt 2 back-to-back classes: Metafit followed by circuits. It's just an hour in total so hopefully I'll be okay.

If this works I'm going to switch from 5.2 to ADF because my weight loss has stalled. I've never done ADF before due to it clashing with my gym workouts.

What's a shred?

'shred' is the Jillian Michaels 30 day shred dvd.

Perhaps you should take something quick-release sugar with you just in case you need it? Esp if you have to drive home. I don't mean a lot, I was thinking of those glucose sweets diabetics carry for emergencies.

What does the DVD involve? Why is it different from other approaches to exercise?

Speaking of the shred, I've been hobbling around since doing it on Tuesday after a 4-month break. Oh, it hurts...

welcome back Miffy and don't worry, there are a couple of us knocking around who were really regular, successful 5:2ers last year but who "lapsed" towards the end of the year.
Mine wasn't bad, for some reason January has been my downfall but not much damage weight wise, I could just feel the bingeing and overeating starting up again.
So, back on track this week, using mfp to keep a check on what I'm eating on nfds and already feeling better for it

Nice NSV tigger

Welcome back miffy

wombles I often exercise on FDs, running 5-6 miles in the evening even if I haven't eaten at all during the day. I just do it slower!

I broke yesterday's fast about ten minutes ago with two veggie sausages left over from DC's dinner last night. I avoid milk, don't have much cheese or yogurt but lots of chocolate as I definitely find it increases mucus. Full fat milk can bung me up in a day or two and I won't be able to hear either!

TigerMommie Great NSV.
Congratulations on reaching the Land of the Medium Botty

Wombles I do very intense fasted training without problems: boxing, crossfit, Tabata, HIIT spin, heavy lifting. I have normal energy for at least an hour, but feel best to stop at 90 mins max.

Recommendations:

• HIIT in any form seems to fit best, because of the intermittent loading and breaks. More steady state exercise such as running, cardio, pump etc can be draining and make you starving.
• Don't exceed 60 mins at first, because the effect can hit you later if you are not used to it.
• 10 mins before, drink a double espresso or other non-fizzy high-caffeine drink. Seems to help release fat stores for energy.
• 10 mins before and also right afterwards: drink zero-cal BCAA (Branch Chain Amino Acid) or a low carb & low fat protein shake. Don't skip this even if you are going home to supper - too long a wait.

I can recommend fasted training

Biblio You could take more gentle exercise the next couple of days, such as long walks. Then ..... get shredding again !

Best to exercise at least 3 times per week, so you don't hobble around.

Morning

well done on the medium bum ! thats an achievement!

Zedzed ((((hugs)))) i saw what a mare yesterday was for you. poor you. its awful when you have days like that.
I know others have said it, but weve all been there. I can honestly say I've had some tough times with my two and I have been very shouty mummy and hated myself after.

Its the constant grind of small DC. I really feel for you. We have had 4 months of almost solid illness with my two (and me). It stated with their chicken pox in beginning of November and hasnt stopped.
They have whined and wailed almost every waking hour sometimes and they are 4 and 2 so I thought i was beyond the constant wailing phase.

Its worn me down. Couple that with appalling behaviour, and its a struggle to keep calm. I made a roast chicken with roast potatos and roast cauliflower broccoli cheese last nigh. Its their fave and they asked for it.
Once it was on the table, they whined and threw food on the floor, said it was yukky and "disgusted" (DSs phrase). And point blank refused to eat any of it.
And they refused to eat the lovely pear crumble I had also made.

I managed to stay calm but only just and only by having a monster portion of crumble myself

So to all of you here with small DC, I feel for you!! The hideous weather, illnesses etc, its all on top of us all!!

I decided to cheer myself up by trying on old pre-DC clothes which were in the "way too small, will never fit again" charity bag. Guess what?? they all fit beautifully

So if you need a boost, go find some stuff in your wardrobes. Either old stuff from your heaviest and see how baggy it is or some smaller stuff to see if it fits or that it almost fits!! Go on. you'll be flipping amazed. and its such a boost.

Someone here asked how many dress sizes I've lost.
Well I was over 17st, 2.5 years ago after DS was born and I guess about a size 18. I'm now a 10/12 in designer or high end high st and an 8 in places like Gap and uniqlo etc.

This time last year when i was 13st10, I was a large 14.

I obv have the advantage that I used to be a 10/12 (8 in some shops) so I have all my "old" pre-DC stuff to wear. But if you dont have any smaller stuff to try on, just go for the larger stuff you used to wear and see how baggy it is and how it falls down.

Phew monster post. FD today and Im having one of those Innocent noodlepots for lunch (247cals). Funny how this is my "junk food" now isnt it.

Welcome back miffy I'm another who slipped since last summer, back on track now with the threads help though
Wey hey slinky bum, we'll be calling you snake hips soon
Hope today's better zed I have huge admiration to all of you getting slim & healthy with lo, I spent years as mine were getting older pretending the extra lbs were hardly noticeable until I had a wakeup call & realised just how much weight in total I had put on & how unfit & OLD I felt! It's a great motivator but flapjack & wine were common crutches to get me through the day/evening when they were little!
Just been for my pre hol bikini wax, feel she knows me better than my husband now She was certainly thorough
Today is def last fast before the hol(will be a success) then I will re join you all & catch up on the thread on my return. Will def include exercise too now my back seems to have recovered too Bigchoc
Anyone want to guess how many lbs I will put on in 7 days away?