The 5:2 thread number 38 -"Oh that this too, too solid flesh would melt" : Well, Hamlet, it can in a healthy, sustainable way. Join our friendly 5:2/IF support group"

[BigChocFrenzy]

The 5:2 thread number 36
The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.
The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.
By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.
You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.
WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.
MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.
TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.
NFD = Non fast day
NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory
Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!
Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and were a friendly bunch.
Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:
Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.
Tips and Links: Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!
Inspirational: eatriskiers thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.
Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!
Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.
Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.
Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.
This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.
This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.
This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body right body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.
A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")
Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this article appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise)
A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.
A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!
Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

MrsF contact your GP now and put in writing that you will be issuing a formal complaint. Totally unacceptable treatment.
And I hope that your fragrant DH will book you all the cleaners, housekeepers and other help you need till you are all totally well ..... if he refuses ytell him that you are going to message his work address to all the people on the exercise thread

TIP. MrF has been amazing. Sorted house DC guinea pigs laundry ferrying me to hospitals and talking to doctors and generally being superman.

I do want to complain about the hospital and that bloody A&E registrar last night. What a thing to do. I spent the whole night sobbing and actually there wasn't anything wrong it was a normal process given the infection.

What gets me is that this boy was a "senior registrar" so a 4th year junior doctor. That means in the next few months he will fully qualify to be let loose on patients alone. Yikes!

Eatriskier. I'm sorry you're having GP and health trouble. It's utter hell when HCP treat you like a fucking child and won't listen.

And TIP, if he doesn't reinstate cleaner I will get Bigchoc and her hunks to do press ups on him

MrsF What a total nightmare experience. And you probably aren't allowed any medical to calm your jangling nerves.

The experiences you and Eat had are absolutely disgraceful and should be reported. Sharp kicks up the arse required for the NHS.

Yes, your DH needs to order in cleaners and nanny, not just during your illness, but afterwards so you can recover your strength and then have some time for yourself.
You can at least menace him with that pic of me with boxing gloves and say ".... or else i'll send Big Choc round"

MrsF You may not feel like eating food but try and eat well if you can, if not then please take multivitamin's. It's good to see DH is pulling his finger out.

I'm convinced that Mumsnet is responsible for the national shortage of butternut tea .

Doris Your walking sounds excellent for health. As you say, consistency in exercise is what is important, not having a super-duper gym regime that you can't maintain.

Errol No excuse for that lazy short-arsed dog, though. You are the boss and the can-opener, so he / she / it should accompany you on command and walk for its supper.
Inform it that dogs are supposed to R U N and take it out for a drag - 12kg is a good weight to pull until your new dumbbells arrive.

Bigchoc

I've shown him that picture of you and he's been told that you're my mate so he'd better watch out.

He looked really scared. All he kept saying was "and she is a scientist too!" Funny.

Southeast yes MN is frequently responsible for shortages of stuff. Last year it was vanilla powder (low carbers) and that anti chafing gel for make up primer.

Really sorry to read all these health horror stories. Best wishes for competent treatment and speedy recoveries.

I popped into pound land and saw the mn book there. Yes, for a pound. (woman thought I was mad for asking. Clearly am bit thick. Wired. Labelled £12 costs £1). I'll get me coat.

Oh my word, MrsF! Many many many {{{{hugs}}}} to you x

Oh dear mrsf, sounds grim. Lame mn phone hug is best I can rustle up right now.

Hi everyone. I am sorry to hear that Mazzle, eatriskier, betsy and Mrs F are all so unwell. Mrs F and Eat, I cannot believe the incompetence you’ve had to deal with. Mrs F, being told you have liver failure, when in fact you do not, is unbelievable. I do hope when you are better that you write a letter of complaint.

Nouvelle, it sounds like the norovirus has caused some damage, you might need to re-populate the bowel with some good bacteria.Have you been eating live yoghurt and/or taking acidopolis tablets? They can help restore the balance. I am also a firm believer in home made bone broth (stock). It is supposed to do magic in the digestive system, and when anyone gets sick in my house I cook it. When you make your own broth from bones, there is a lot of gelatine and minerals in it which is very healing for the gut.

My fast day yesterday didn’t seem to go all that well, but actually wasn’t too bad in the end. I got home from work with that ravenous, I feel nauseous feeling and had some toast and soup, telling myself that I’d do another fast day somewhere else to catch up. But in the end it was about 600 calories after a very low dinner of miracle rice and chicken tenders. I have had a SV this morning and I really wasn’t expecting it. A nice surprise! I am under 75 kgs, which hasn’t happened to me for such a long time that at first I thought it said 75.7 and thought, “oh well, I will get there eventually”. But then realised it was 74.7. Hurray. Still a long way to go, but slowly getting there, which is great.

I did my measurements this morning, waist and bust haven’t changed (but it doesn’t surprise me when I am a week away from AF, and just quietly….having a few symptoms which are very unlikely to be pregnancy, but remind me of it…more likely menopause. So a little bloated )but I have lost an inch off the hips. Which is great. Perhaps I will actually get into the lovely new jeans eventually.

errol maybe he needs tiny walks initially, just to get used it. Maybe. They're hard work when they get their minds set on something, where the expression dog- ged determination comes from I suppose.

fairy I loved the image of you and your baby doing your exercises together.

And MrsA we live near each other. I shall be eyeing my friends suspiciously to see if they are mumsnetters.

Another FD done. Thought it would be tough when woke with rumbling tum this morning. But was fine. And out for lunch tomorrow. Yay!

Ooh hopeful that's intriguing.

Great sv and nearly into new jeans nsv. But maybe not for long...

Well done on the SV, Hopeful. You're on your way !

Nouvelle Your tum may need a few weeks to regain its healthy bacteria, so try to cut out all fizzy drinks and added sugar.
Also, maybe best to just stick to TDEE and not fast for a couple of weeks. Sorry, patience required.

I recommend probiotic acidophilus capsules twice daily (I take them longterm) available from a health food shop or chemist. Should include approx:

• 3x 10 E9 acidophilus cells
• 3x 10 E6 each of bifidobacterium, lactobacillus bulgaricus , lacto. salivarius salivarius

Feeling a bit better today. Sleep was fitful but better in that I managed to stay in bed and didn't need to get up for pain relief. One cocodamol in this morning and I can swallow a bit and move my head. Plus actually feeling hungry and looking very forward to my meals today, especially chosen for their swallowing ease!

Hope all other ill people are feeling better today, especially poor mrsf.

DH is going to stay at home this morning to help with the DCs a bit and hopefully enable me to get my bloods done. Depends on how quickly the Dr does the form for me. Both DC are coughing like mad too though at the moment, so I may be lucky this afternoon and we can watch a movie. I say lucky, because this has never worked before! DD has the attention span of a gnat and DS isn't much better.

Found out that in all likelihood Im going to be made redundant in April. The wedding (and the house we were buying) will have to be cancelled. Came home and ordered a massive Dominos, now feel doubly shit this morning.

Oh IPoked very sorry to read that. There's so much advice on here about redundancy so please have a search when you're up to it.

Ipoked. (((Hugs)))) that's beyond awful!
I really feel for you. Poor you. Your wedding and first home. Don't worry about the pizza. A one off.

Don't dispair. Perhaps you can find a new role quickly before your redundancy inApril. You still have time. Almost 2 months??

Don't know what line of work you're in but get your cv out there all polished today! (Stern face)
And perhaps register with one of those recruitment agencies which servers your industry.
Tell us more and we will help you.

Everyone. Bssh. Eat. Bigchoc. Everyone. Thanks for kind messages. I'm on the mend. I have the correct medication. And Southeast. I will eat properly and take vitamins.

Swollen face is less so this am. Almost normal. I can at least recognise myself. Poor DS has been terrified of me. Running away shouting "not mummy, monster". Don't blame him.
Sadly I am still lobster coloured and the pussy peeling scabby face still looks awful. I am quite worried about scarring.

I've read that Manuka honey can kill strep and staph infections on skin and in wounds so am sending DH to shop to buy some and am going to smear myself in honey to see if it help.
Nothing to lose. At worst I look ridiculous and sticky for a short while.

The only good news is that I am 1lbs away from goal this am.
(Drumroll). I am 10.12st, 153lbs and 69.4kg now

This time last year I was 85kg

So whilst I am nursing my lobster hue and scabby pussy face I can at least enjoy that I am officially no longer fat. My BMI is 21.05.
Hope the rest of you are keeping up the SV and NSV here!!

Ipoked. Shit I'm sorry. What a hideous triple blow.:( don't give the pizza a 2nd thought. You needed emergency the after your shock.
Agree with stern voices telling you to get your shiny cv out there.Fingers crossed you end up somewhere even better.

Mrs f - glad you're feeling a bit better And your face is going down. Iyswim.

So close MrsF :)

IPoked so sorry about your news .

BigChoc what brand probiotic tablets do you take? I take Boots Digestive Support with 12.5 billion active cultures which I find helpful but would like to know if there are better tabs out there.

ipoked for you, that completely sucks. I think you should be applauded that you only went as far as a Dominos, with that news I would have probably gone far beyond that.

mrsf that's horrible about your DS, poor you. Glad you're feeling better though even if you're bright red.

I'm so sorry and appalled to read these posts this morning.

Mrs F your story is so awful...but not surprising, sadly, as a very similar thing happened to my brother 4yrs ago; he was told by a junior doc, at the weekend when there's nobody around to check with, that he'd had a massive heart attack and his liver was in failure.

He was inconsolable and had panic attacks on top of his massive infection, allergic reaction to wrong antibiotics and hospital pneumonia...oh and his rampant paranoia from the constant morphine.

Neither of these things were true, he'd had no cardiac episode and his liver, for a diabetic who drinks beer and was full of antibiotics, was fine.

What was true was that his nurse had tried to inject him with someone else's insulin dose (enough to kill him) and when taking his bloods wiped the puncture with a naked finger (just what his massiveley infected system needed) then she tried to bribe him/threaten him with a better/ worse room to keep quiet about her mistake. Oh. My. God.

A formal complaint would be in order for you, but if it prolongs your illness by making you anxious it'd be understandable if you just wanted to forget the whole sorry episode.
I feel so terrible for you and your, poor, poor, body. I so hope you're on the mend soon.

badger holy fuck...that's terrible. Wait though, breathe a little, you may not have to cancel anything yet, you may be able to get a stay of execution at work for a few months and meantime secure a new/better role if you start hunting now. Maybe. Hopefully. Never mind the bloody pizza, you won't make a habit of it, old crap habits are tough to break under extreme pressure.

God, my 'I ate half a sausage and a dollop of pudding in my sleep at 2am and so had my first Fast Day fail' post is VERY much in perspective now.

Off for the weekend to our building site now, really hope everyone's a bit better by the time I get back. (((hugs to all who need them))) XXX

Thank you for those words.

MrsFlorrick I'm a senior youth worker/youth and community centre manager, not really any other positions were I am so itll mean doing something not in my field (bar work or cleaning round here mainly) or being a sahm (wouldn't be good for my mental health) or asking dp to give up his job and our friends and move areas....

I haven't slept all night and now have all day on my own with as manic 3 year old and a grumpy teething 8 month old