The 5:2 thread number 38 -"Oh that this too, too solid flesh would melt" : Well, Hamlet, it can in a healthy, sustainable way. Join our friendly 5:2/IF support group"

[BigChocFrenzy]

The 5:2 thread number 36
The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.
The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.
By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.
You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.
WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.
MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.
TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.
NFD = Non fast day
NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory
Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!
Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and were a friendly bunch.
Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:
Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.
Tips and Links: Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!
Inspirational: eatriskiers thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.
Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!
Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.
Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.
Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.
This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.
This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.
This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body right body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.
A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")
Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this article appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise)
A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.
A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!
Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

Morning all I'm in Blighty :) Arrived at midnight. dd was brilliant and slept the whole time on the flight and din't complain at the enormous yomp through Gatwick.

We got a dog in October, so that plus feeling really competitive with my fitbit/dh fitbit has really got me moving.

This woe is perfect for me. I am 'all or nothing' with everything. I can easily go without, bit having only a little bit is impossible. So something like WW - you can have 6 chips! Is never going to work.

I normally only ever wear skirts, but as I am travelling light and I knew the weather was going to be cap, plus loads of walking, I am in jeans . I couldn't get into my nice ones, but am in jeans. Loved the description. Really funny.

And yes, dunno about in UK, but in our local shop every single bar of chocolate has gluten in it, or nuts (also recently allergic) like Toblerone. There is only one bar of chocolate I can buy but they only have it occasionally.

UK is brilliant for labelling, so am also going to enjoy 4 days of easy shopping too.

Good luck to everyone on FD. ANd be good to everyone who isn't!

Welcome to the uk earnest. are you staying in London? I work near Euston. Most supermarkets here have a free-from section just ask if can't find it. Should be able to find most things there and it will usually be cheaper than else where. if really stuck try a holland & barrett.

Morning all. I weighed in this morning and am still under goal weight so I will not fast today. So, my first week in maintenance has been 6:1. I'll do this every week I think: always fast on Mondays regardless of weight but leave Thursday's fasts for when I put on a few lbs. my "trouble" is that I cannot overeat much any more so I can't make up the calorie deficit that two FDs a week will give me.

God luck today's fasters.

Try Cadburys or Green and Blacks for gluten-free chocs.

Hi, no I'm in Brighton. Really shit weather.

I have my regular UK treats. All been dreaming about for some time now. :)

Weighed myself this morning. 60.4. I will be so chuffed to get under 60. AM excited.

This thread has helped enormously. When I tried 5:2 last year I made the mistake of eating whatever on NFD. I learned just from this (or previous) thread about TFEE. Real shock to learn mine is only 1700. So when I was being 'good' and sticking to average recommendations of 2000, I was still at least 300 cal a day over. NO wonder I didn't loose weight, but steadily gained and gained.

Feel in control for 1st time in years and feeling much more enjoyment about being active. I even ordered a couple of Jillian Michaels or whatever she's called dvd.

positively why don't you try doing 16:8 for a bit just to get you back into mindful eating? You will feel depressed if you eat crap, and you will feel more positive if you eat nutritiously.

I think this is the hardest bit of the winter - there are tantalising glimpses of spring but not quite in reach yet. But we can get through this.

Don't fast while ill folks - I'm not fasting today as I normally would, as it felt very counter-productive on Monday and just led to carb-frenzies the next day. Instead, try and get as much nutrition in as possible.

Lucky for me I can't eat sugary crap/chocolate with a sore throat so no temptation there.

Good plan bssh, I might steal that one for myself.

Bssh I long for that trouble It was really interesting to read your review of your year the other day. 0.8lbs a week really isn't a lot is it?

ernest I am very similar. If I am eating something nice then I want to eat it, not nibble around the edges!

eatriskier and mazzle you poor things, those illnesses sound utterly vile.

I am weighing every day at the moment, old habits die hard and historically whenever I avoid the scales the weight goes on.
I actually weigh less this morning, after two NFDs, than I did on Tuesday morning after my FD. That has never happened before while doing 5:2, so I'm hopeful that maybe I've finally got mid-week NFDs cracked in terms of not going over TDEE.

FD for me today. I feel ok, much better than yesterday so I will see how I go. I've sorted food for the DCs for the day already so no standing in the kitchen and thinking required later. Just need to finish the online shop and then I can ignore food for the day until it is time for cod and lemon fishcake with salad and leeks for dinner. Followed by two squares of Lindt blueberry chocolate. Yum, yum.

Have a good day everyone :)

Bssh sounds like a good plan!

melanie really? is that their normal stuff or do they do specials? Is that why cadbury's and green and blacks rock?

ernest I think its a shame that the 2000 figure gets bandied about so much by people with no comprehension of what an average is. It clearly leads to people being very confused about what they should be eating. A nurse told DM every woman should eat 2000 calories a day, no differential between active/sedentary/little/large. I had to explain to her the concept of average meaning that some people would need more and some less. DM was shocked when she found out her TDEE was as low as it was, but started losing when she stopped going for 2000 every day.

Talking of DM, she had to stop 5:2. Her Dr actively encouraged her to try it out but warned her that the drugs she's on may make it hard for her. In the end the drugs made her more hungry than ever when on 5:2. She's trying some simple calorie counting and is doing so much better now with a more controlled. Shame really but I suppose not everything works for everyone, and the drugs are far more important to DMs quality of life than a woe.

With Cadbury's the buttons are ok but the bars are not. No big deal. I like giant buttons. never had G & B. is it only healthy dark stuff? I can only eat milk chocolate with loads of extra fat and sugar. cannot abide dark proper stuff.

Pretty gutted to not be able to eat maltesers though :(. They are my dd favourites and can't get them at home so it is her UK treat.

positively - I can really relate to how you feel. And you're right. It can really turn into a vicious circle. I and everyone on this thread sending you mega boost vibes xx

poor mazzle and betsy and all other poorlies: boooooooooooooooooo. It's rubbish being so ill, hopefully it'll all be over soon and you can get back to feeling full of vim and vigour instead of phlegm and bile.

FD no 2 this week here for me, all going fine, same old same old, except having woken up this morning already ravenous for some reason; 3 cups of black coffee and 3 bits of furniture under-coated and I'm not hungry any more, phew.

The only topugh bit will be adding fennel sausages to everyone else's spiced lentils tonight and not having some myself...love those sausages...I may cook one and keep it for tomorrow.

Will be camping out at our new house/building site this weekend, this will be a food challenge as we'll have to eat out or use the microwave all weekend as there's no kitchen...I may try to do 16:8 all weekend so I can eat cafe food with everyone else. Luckily we'll be really busy sanding down 3 floors worth of woodwork with two babies 'helping'.

STAY BUSY
DRINK UP
GO WALKIES
Or just mumble our Buttermint/Bubblemint Song over and over like a loon to ward off the munchies.

Good luck Fasters and stay nice and tidy/TDEEEEEEEEEEEE non-Fasters!

Alibabaandthe40nappies yes 0.8 lbs average loss a week doesn't sound alot but it's amounted to a loss of 6 stones in 2 years. That sounds better, doesn't it .

Get well soon Mazzle, Eatriskier and Betsy!

ernest welcome back to the UK. Hope you enjoy all the food :)

Morning all! I was on here a thread or two ago and then disappeared, but I'm still FDing away. This is my fourth week (second FD of the week will be tomorrow) and I'm down by 9 lbs, hooray. I had to hitch my jeans up quite a lot on the school run this morning.

I have a quick question that is also quite gross, so if you are of a sensitive disposition or trying to eat then ignore this next bit...

...how do you all find the diet affects your digestive system? I was fine for the first two weeks, then got norovirus, but waited to be back to normal before doing another fast day. On my first FD 'back', though, I got horrible diarrhoea and it hasn't completely let up since, despite being over a week since that FD and almost two weeks since the bout of noro. It's getting me down to be honest. Is this a post-illness thing, a 5:2 thing, or have I just been cursed forever by the god of galloping shits?

Laughing at the jeans and leggings, so so true, one reason I put more weight on than I realised was due to excessive legging wear (always with dresses I might add, but still...) - the jeans indeed tell how it is. I don't want to try on my size 12 jeans again till I am 11 st so 3lb to go, and we'll see how they feel.

Hugs to those in the poorly club, I'm still there too, supposed to be a FD today but my chest infection has worsened despite antibiotics, I feel like I have been run over by a bus, so actually don't feel like eating but have to to try and keep up strength - this is partly where my weight woes originated, so many cycles of losing too quickly due to illness. I don't really know what to do about that but hoping the 5/2 can give me some kind of consistency anyway. Trying to eat small but nutritious.

This thread is a real help, so motivational

zedzed when's the house going to be finished?

positively you should definitely try 16:8 if you're not in the 5:2 zone. When I couldn't properly complete 2 FD over last year's school summer holidays I did 16:8 Monday through Friday and it really helped. It was easy skipping a meal and by September I was back in the 5:2 zone.

To all the poorly mummies and their poorly kiddies. I prescribe top quality ice-cream, industrial strength painkillers/calpol as appropriate and catch up tv.

alibaba I would be happy be with 0.8lb per week as that's what I lose per month....my own fault. Im getting to grips with my TDEE. I spent some time calculating what a 10 stone version of me can have, on an active day I will allow myself the lightly active amount, on a sedentary day, the sedentary amount. Im 11st, so when I get to 10st, I will eat like a 9 st person. That's the theory, the reality will probably pan out something less controlled tbh.

doris how come you do all that walking, and what are these all forgiving walking trousers? I walk miles(the dog insists on it), but my love of chocolate has kept me rotund, plus I tend to stroll around in jeans. I didn't realise there were special pants for that purpose!

BsshBoshh well done on being a "maintainer" now, that's great news!

Peplum I'm a consistent size 12 now (well, in the regular shops most of my clothes come from eg. Gap / Monsoon). When I was 11st I could squeeze into my more generous 12s but was more of a size 14. I started 5:2 when, at 11st8 I was almost bursting out of my size 14's .
I'm an apple shape, but without the lovely slim legs that allegedly are the rights of an apple person! So, that means I am never, ever, going to get near a "healthy" waist measurement as that's my biggest bit by far
But my legs are slimmer than they were pre 5:2 so I wear straight leg jeans and the more forgiving variety of skinnies

Bssh I know, that is what I mean! All other diets you are made to feel like you are failing if you don't lose 2-3lbs a week. Slow and steady wins the race :)

nouvelle you poor thing that sounds horrendous. I find that I am quite the opposite, FDs render my digestion somewhat slow. Maybe ring the GP?

Positively If you try 16:8, you probably need to track that you don't go over TDEE, as that seems to be your problem on NFDs.

errol, Tip and others have lost despite low TDEE, but whatever method you choose will require discipline, patience and still be very slow.

nouvelle I suffer with IBS-D and for a while I had the galloping shits! But since then its calmed down and I rarely suffer attacks at all now, in fact like ali I'm a little sluggish if anything. It could be that your system needs a bit of time to settle into its new regime, and probably got whacked all out of shape with the norovirus.

I have to phone back GP at 2pm to see if my thyroid test has come back. I get that their hands are tied until they get the results but I'm now sporting a rather pleasant goitre.

Am on my third tea of the day, and have braved a deviant porridge (see bigchoc I'm a good girl who isn't fasting when ill). I may even brave a chicken broth later then a chicken noodle soup for dinner if I'm really feeling brave (plus ice cream of course).

dotty I was always apple shaped too, and if I put weight back on its going straight back on my tum. But I'm now a decent hourglass , a slim one rather than a Marilynesque curvy one but hourglass none the less.

nouvelle sounds awful, but not 5:2 related. Yes, see your Dr if that continues. Congrats on the 9lb loss, but how much of that can be contributed to 5:2 and not illness we may never know!

Dotty, on the way up I defiantly crammed myself into too tight clothing, but on the way down I am reluctant to have that muffin top spare tyre look.

Earnest enjoy your shopping in Brighton, bet they have good shops there, good job with the wet weather. I never used to like dark choc, too strong and bitter, but I have acquired a taste for it since starting 5:2. The best thing about it is one or two squares is enough, but with the milk stuff I just keep going til its gone, then need more, and more. I love one that Lidl do, its thin and snappy. Not sure if gf though.

Zed whats in your tea selection today? Ive had enough coffee for now, moved on to licorice tea for a change of pace.

OOh eats, that goitre sounds like you might be right about your thyroid. Vicariously envy your deviant porridge, but not your sore throat. and hugs.

Sorry to sell those feeling under the weather Hope you all feel better soon
Had a good FD yesterday, came in at 480-ish so pleaded with that, feel 'back on the wagon' a bit now!
A NFD today and had eggs for breakfast so that should keep me going for a while, off to discuss catering options for the wedding with a restaurant though so that might get tempting!

Bssh GOD KNOWS! We got the keys in October, still in temp accommodation, 5 of us in a 2 up 2 down with all our stuff and a lot of really bad condensation mould from being so tightly packed, which we try to keep in check, but it's like holding back the tide.

As of this weekend we'll have safe electrics, hence the ability to go there with the babies AT LAST! Hopefully things will move on now as we can DIY all weekend. Some of my belongings have been in storage since 2011!

Pep Twinings Chai tea today, well from now on...mainlining black coffee has led to galloping shakes which is not conducive to neat furniture painting or calm parenting!