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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 33 - Counting down to Christmas (and NOT thinking about the impending chocapocolaypse. Yet)

999 replies

BetsyJingleBells · 16/12/2013 08:21

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
TalkinPeace · 29/12/2013 19:17

what the heck is a 5:2 food? Xmas Grin

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 29/12/2013 19:25

Meal with all the necessary nutrients and coming in at 600 calories from what I could gather from the tv advert.

TalkinPeace · 29/12/2013 19:34

ROTFLMAO
I'll stick to my Waitrose soups!

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 29/12/2013 19:45

It's not difficult to create 500 cal meals with the nutrients one needs for an FD.
It is interesting how individuals and firms are trying to cash in on 5:2

Maybe part of the 5:2 image problem is that companies are not able to patent a "weekly calorie deficit" or make much money out of special foods, monthly subscriptions, glossy brochures.
Hmm
5:2 seems mostly spread by work of mouth by those who have had success on it.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 29/12/2013 19:53

Don't shoot the messenger!

BsshBossh · 29/12/2013 19:55

It's Lighter Life's 5:2 replacement meals! LOL! 500 cals isn't hard to make up with real food.

TalkinPeace · 29/12/2013 19:58

Toffee fear not, we are chuckling Smile

well over a year ago we predicted that there would be
a) a backlash from the diet groups who stood to lose weekly subs
b) a backlash from the processed food industry against the no snacking mantra
c) special products to cash in

and golly gosh, you were the first to spot one this food season!

I find the idea of a "product" really funny - because the whole point of 5:2 is that we each do what suits
from vegan to paleo, from cakes to no sugar etc etc .... but all within the same outline rules
advertisers must loathe us !

Mazzledazzle · 29/12/2013 20:16

I'm the same BsshBossh. How bloody inconsiderate of our bodies to doll out a period at this time of year!

Emmabryant123 · 29/12/2013 20:23

To the person that asked about carbs and fruit

I feel like carbs would make me hungrier and fruit would be less filling for 100 calories say of banana then 100 calories of protein and veg will be.

How do I wake up and get my head around the fact that tomorrow is a fast day.?
I plan a leisurely morning in bed,
Dh said he will do kids breakfast and lunch but I will be preparing dinner, which is when I will eat to .
I plan to drink during the day. Mugs of tea (never tried this black what does it taste like?) otherwise ill measure out some milk. Sugar free seven up and sugar free dr pepper and lots of water.Dinner will probably be a tin of soup (then grab an early night)

Emmabryant123 · 29/12/2013 20:33

Thursday will be easy.
Am back at work so will just take no food and don't need to cook so can just heat up soup about 6:30pm when home but tomorrow I'm home all day with food infront me me.
If I stay up late hopefully ill lay in and then it'll only be about 5-6 hours till dinner time.

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 29/12/2013 20:34

On FDs, I like herbal teas - e.g. mint / ginger / fennel & aniseed - work well with Stevia and don't need milk. I count them as zero cal; theyre damn near.

Espresso is also good, especially just before fasted training, to help release fat stores for energy.

Happy Brewing !

inamerrymuckingfuddle · 29/12/2013 20:36

another one in sync with mazzle and bssh [grrr] in fact why don't we have a grr emoticon? feeling v lardy and grumpy...taking DTDs shopping tomorrow, I may regret this (also fasting Hmm)

just found out on another thread that I live near biscuits!

I've never been a fan of the diet industry and its desire to dupe people into paying over the odds for processed food that does nothing for you, why people would buy diet branded food/meals/drinks rather than just eat fresh and healthy is beyond me!

Emmabryant123 · 29/12/2013 20:40

Yes I saw that advert the other day, to be honest probably a waste of money could make the meals your self and for your families just perhaps adding stuff for your families that is more calorie laden than 500 cals allows.

I'm actually really scared of the hunger tomorrow. How do I over come this?
I must start probably tomorrow or else I never will.

EatriskierDrinkAndBeMerry · 29/12/2013 20:59

I'm almost surprised it's taken this long for someone to cash in on ready meals for 5:2.

For all the newbies wondering about fasting I always found, and still do, the key is in planning ahead. If you know what you're having and when it stops you thinking so much about food and also gives you something to look forward to. Also don't feel like you have to go into 24hr fasting straight off, you can work your way to it if you like. Many of us find that's just easier to control the hunger, but plenty do 2 or 3 meals. This woe can be as simple or complicated as you like.

DinoSnores · 29/12/2013 22:18

I don't understand 'diet' foods either. I would much rather have semi-skimmed milk than watery skimmed milk, butter instead of synthetic tasting margarine, full fat natural yoghurt instead of low fat, sugar filled yoghurt etc. Just have a bit less of it, that's all. The idea of 5:2 meal replacement is bonkers. The whole idea of it is to be a sustainable way of life!

Emma, I don't find the hunger that bad. I don't really notice it. I keep myself busy and have drinks if I need something. To be honest, I am now (after only 5 fasts) much more aware of being thirsty rather than hungry now and how I was probably missing that before.

Today started as a FD, but then old friends were in our town so came over for an impromptu dinner, so I've worked it out as roughly 750 kcal for today so I'm happy enough with that. I did a good bit of exercise too, trying to do a bit more on my FDs now that I know I can manage.

Right, LOADS of washing up to do before bed!

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 29/12/2013 22:29

Emma It's not too difficult, we have all managed and we are not all Superwoman.
Xmas Smile

The day before, try to plan all your meals for the whole FD, with calorie counts. Concentrate on protein and veg like soups and stews; avoid fruit and starches.

Most people manage 500 FDs within 2 weeks, some almost immediately. Allow yourself time to get used to fasting, in which you are not too strict on FDs. So, on the FD, if you find you really need an extra 200 cal meal, then have it. Just no junk. Anything sub-1000 is still a big calorie deficit.

Don't worry, your mind & body will adapt. Just keep posting here and people will provide moral support on FDs.

TalkinPeace · 29/12/2013 22:33

Blush Am no way superwoman.
Am currently blobby on the sofa knowing that I really should have gone to the gym today!
((( To all those enjoying a christmas of mindful eating )))
Have chosen NOT to have cheese or an extra drink tonight.
Because I do not need it.
Still slightly stunned at myself

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 29/12/2013 22:35

On FDs, I eat lunch, then train in the evenings, followed by a shake.
I find 60-90 mins HIIT and lifting stops hunger.

BiscuitsAreMyDownfall · 29/12/2013 22:51

Hi everyone. I've fallen off the wagon this weekend. I keep telling myself that it's not January yet, but it's really just an excuse.

For all the newbies I found that I got through hunger by remembering that hunger comes in waves. For FDs i plan what I'm eating and when and stick to it, if I feel hungry a big drink of water and telling myself that I can eat soon and the hunger will pass is usually enough to get me through.

Also it's worth noting that eating causes hunger, the more you eat the more your body expects. It's just about training your body to not need as much food. After my first week, by the Friday I was not as hungry as usual.

Right FD tomorrow. We have stew for tea anyway so LOF or no more than 200 cals before then. I just know I will feel good for it if I succeed.

hopefulgum · 29/12/2013 23:20

Biscuits, I find the hunger comes in waves too, and am amazed that it then goes away. I worried I'd spend the day feeling an empty uncomfortable gnawing in my stomach, but it isn't like that at all.

Yesterday I did a fast day, and am very pleased that I managed to go all day with only a couple of carrots and a small cucumber for lunch, then some lean chicken patties (homemade: chicken breast mince,parsley,sesame seeds, egg white,spring onion, almond meal and spinch-yum) with a pile of steamed vege for dinner.

I drink a lot of tea on fast days, I have a huge range to keep things interesting: green teas, fruit teas,herbal as well as flavoured black tea. I have given up most dairy,so don't have milk in the tea. I also love a squeeze of lemon in water, and sparkling mineral water too. I have a big 1.25 litre bottle filled with water and try to drink it twice through the day (2.5 litres). I do find that I tend to get a bit bloated on fast days - probably due eating raw vegies at lunch time - it tends to make me a bit windy.

I did end up buying the Mimi Spencer recipe book on Ebay. I am a planner, so I will love having specific recipes to put on the weekly menu.

In fact one of the things I did on my FD was to sit down and write the weeks menu and shopping list, which you would think might add to the desire to eat, but it just reminded me of all the lovely food I will eat on NFD's.

Someone up thread said that if BMI is over 24 (mine's 27) that I'll have to calorie count. I was hoping not to. I have MFP on my phone and have counted on FD's but it just seems so time consuming to do it every day. I suppose after a while it won't take as long when all my favorites are stored in there?

I guess I could do it while I am on holidays and see if it makes a difference?

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 29/12/2013 23:54

Sleep
Some women may experience sleep problems until their body adjusts to IF.
This paper, testing mostly females, found that IF can improve sleep:
Ref

Night all

positively9something · 30/12/2013 00:12

well I managed a fast days today and actually I wasnt very hungry like I have been on other fast days. I think my body needed a break so was happy not to eat.

I don't think I can fit another fast day in until thursday, but after this week will be back to Mondays and Thursdays.

I am also going back to the gym, what will get rid of the wobbly belly quickest?

ChubbyKitty · 30/12/2013 01:12

See I already know I'm going to be getting a ton of calories on Tuesday and Wednesday and id like my FDs to be on my days off(I work in a pizza store with lots of cheesy temptation)

Is it acceptable to start on Thursday?

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 30/12/2013 04:25

Just in case you lot start chattering away while I'm whipping the wimps busy:

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@*@

NEW THREAD ALERT

FESTIVE NEW THREAD 34 HERE

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@*@

Please use up this old thread first or I'll be talking seriously to the guilty parties
^^

BetsyJingleBells · 30/12/2013 07:23

hopefulgum I agree with you about why you don't want to calorie count on NFDs but it is a useful exercise from time to time. It's worth checking that your normal eating habits are in line with your Tdee - after all, there is a reason that weight got put on and it could be as simple as going over by 10% on a daily basis.

Also, it's worth remembering that your Tdee shrinks as you shrink. I do the odd day here and there where I check my calorie intake, just to make sure I haven't normalised over sized portions. In fact, I'll probably do an Mfp checking day in the new year as Christmas eating may well have skewed my perception!

bigchoc thank you for new thread supplying Flowers Grin

Also your comment about sleep ties in with my experience on this WOL - For a couple of months I'd only manage a few restless hours, but always feel fine on it. Now I sleep fine on fds.

In fact, I probably sleep better than I used to and no longer find that drinking caffeine after midday keeps me from switching off like it always used to.

That might be that I've just raised my caffeine tolerance though... Definitely become more of a coffee junkie since starting IF!

I think I'll fast today - it is Monday after all Grin

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