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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 33 - Counting down to Christmas (and NOT thinking about the impending chocapocolaypse. Yet)

999 replies

BetsyJingleBells · 16/12/2013 08:21

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
Mum2Fergus · 29/12/2013 11:11

Day1 and I'm fasting today! Had a good read through some previous threads which has been useful...had a lie in til 10 then pottered doing some housework so DP took care of breakfast for he and DS. Just sat having a cup of tea...fortunately not feeling even remotely hungry (I think my near morbidly obese reading last night may have put me off food for life!). So, weigh in from last night stands as my starting weight (17 3 6oz), will do pics and measurements when I have an empty house later this afternoon, should be enough to stave off any hunger pangs lol...have a great day folks x

Mazzledazzle · 29/12/2013 11:57

Papayasoup I too am on my phone and find it impossible to keep up!

Thanks to the poster who had a rotten Christmas with family and still managed to stay in control of her eating - well done you!

To the newbie who is horrified by her BMI let's do this together and see where we are in a month!

I've had a bit of a wobble today. I'm pretty new to fasting, but had already lost a bit of weight. Worryingly, every time I step on the scales my weight is creeping up! I know to look out for NSVs, but I'd be gutted if I gained the weight I lost.

I think I'm going to calorie count on my NFDs Sad using MFP which I downloaded last night and is almost identical to the £10 pcm WW app Shock. I am also signed up to a boot camp style ex. class 3 mornings a week, starting Jan. 6th.

Have trawled through the old threads and the inspirational stories. They have given me a real push. Thank you to all who have shared their stories. Maybe this time next year I'll be doing the same!

mttum · 29/12/2013 12:02

Hi, and thanks for the welcome back everyone, much appreciated Flowers.

southeastdweller, sounds as though your Christmas was on a par with mine, though I am pretty sure I haven't lost weight!

I'm not planning to weigh myself or start back "officially" fasting until the new year - fresh start and all that. To all newcomers, you are definitely in the right place, this is such a supportive and friendly group.

tip, see you on the maintainers group next year, thanks - unless I find I have somehow managed to put a stone or two on over the last couple of weeks!

FunnyFestiveTableRunner · 29/12/2013 12:05

Welcome to newcomers Smile Am new myself and only getting the hang of the whole fasting thing. My problem is that I binge on NFDs and not sure how to stop this Sad

Still suffering from bug. The only positive is that I am back to pre Christmas weight!

FunnyFestiveTableRunner · 29/12/2013 12:06

And Mazzle think the calorie counting is a good idea. It's definitely where I go wrong on NFDs.

Mazzledazzle · 29/12/2013 12:48

Yes TableRunner I think so too. I've been waking up every NFD desperate to binge on chocolate!

That said, I have a tell tale lumpy chin and I'm a bit cranky so maybe my TTF is looming. I have a contraceptive implant in my arm and so my periods are irregular.

Calorie counting today (well, what's left of it after my early morning chocolate splurge Blush) and LOF tomorrow. Let's see what Wednesday's weigh in brings!

ChristmasPudding6 · 29/12/2013 13:52

Fear not Funny and Mazzle I used to be the same on NFDs, seriously overheating on chocolate (breakfast and lunch and inbetween) to the point I didn't have any appetite for a proper dinner. I was still gradually losing weight some how. But for me the fact that none of this 'naughty' food would ever been 'banned' again helped me over come some of the addiction.

Now I do have days where I eat a lot of chocolate as its nice to remind myself that I can if I want to, but a lot more often I make sure I don't start on that kind of stuff until after I've had something more wholesome. Once my body has been fed something nutritious then I'm less inclined to over indulge on other stuff.

If calorie tracking works for you in the short term then MFP is very popular around here and worth doing until your body gets used to normal portions, but make sure you follow the hints above and calculate your NFD calories based on what you would need to maintain your current weight based on your current level of activity. The two fast days will take care of the calorie deficit needed over the week.

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 29/12/2013 14:23

BreadAndWine Yes, I've been thinking of starting a specific 5:2 exercise thread, to collect info & tips just as we do for recipes.
Right, you've motivated me to do so this year !

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 29/12/2013 14:28

I can't keep up with what everyone says. I can barely remember my own name today. Still no better. Getting worse if anything so fasted this morning and then had roast chicken and a small amount of trimmings and some Christmas pudding and brandy sauce. Could barely taste a thing. I have put weight on, about 3lbs, but hopefully it will come off once I am out of this illness fog. DD not looking too good now Sad and she was really ill last month so doesn't need any more illnesses.

Not2bObvious · 29/12/2013 15:44

Seriously doubt you've really gained 3lb Toffee, that would mean you would have to have eaten over 10,000 over and on top of your tdee over the last few days. Same as always I'd say, fluid, undigested food etc. Hope you feel better soon, just keep the fluids going in, rest as much as you can and don't worry a joy about weight, 1-2 decent fasts when you're better will get you back on track no doubt. Hope your dd is ok. My dh is really poorly, following on from my littlest dd who had 3 days of temps/snuffles/earaches/crying, hoping it's just a bad cold not flu as we have a flight to catch tomorrow, and I can't drive a LH drive car!!! Terrified at the thoughts of it but if I have to, I will (shivering with fear, hope it's fear not their bloody lurgy Xmas Sad)
In the plus side I walked about 4 miles, on minus had pizza/wine/choc/crisps for lunch Xmas Confused Meh, it'll be fine I'm sure

TalkinPeace · 29/12/2013 15:56

Hi all,
Had breakfast this morning (scrambled egg on toast) and then a nice hike up at Danebury ring and then a snack lunch.
Quiet evening this week tidying and doing laundry between batches of house guests.

(((( southeast )))) you'll be OK. I must admit that this year DH and I took the view that we are only meeting up with family members whose company we enjoy. It made yesterday much more fun.
But well done on maintaing through the stress - that is when you know your head has reached a better place.

TalkinPeace · 29/12/2013 15:59

NOT CALORIE COUNTING ON NON FAST DAYS
Sadly I have to tell anybody with a BMI over 24 that you will end up needing to - because you need to get your head round what your TDEE looks like
BUT
use MFP to monitor rather than count
ie don't fret about the odd 150 over or under
but if you have a TDEE of say 2100 that will be a lot less than you are used to.
please read the tips and hints thread
there is a link there to pictures of what 200 calories of different foods look like ....

vegetable soups and stews are great for fast days!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 29/12/2013 16:00

Thanks Not. I hope you all feel better soon and when you manage the drive you will feel so proud of yourself. I am drinking loads of water with one lemonade a day to break the monotony. Don't feel like eating but making myself as I make everyone else eat when ill to build their strength. Cat just said he wasn't all right. Roll on bed time.

BsshBossh · 29/12/2013 17:12

Newcomers, love how you are just getting stuck in :)

Had a lovely weekend of leisure and food (Moshi Monsters movie plus popcorn with my 5yo then Turkish lunch yesterday; today a stroll down the South Bank in the glorious sunshine and a wander around the Paul Klee exhibition then Mexican lunch at Wahaca). DH is now making macaroni cheese with bacon and spinach.

FD tomorrow!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 29/12/2013 17:38

Grin Not sure DH has recovered from taking DS2 to see the Moshi Monsters movie yet Grin.

Emmabryant123 · 29/12/2013 18:09

Hmm well today has been:
Breakfast: bacon, tomatoes, scrambled egg and toast
Starter : mixed nuts
Main: roast chicken, pigs in blanket, stuffing, cabbage, carrots, green beans, roast pots, bread sauce and gravy
Dessert: cheesecake and raspberries
Couple of choc truffles, nuts and coffee after.
Fd tomorrow. Probably going to be one meal around 4:30-5pm. Havnt decided what though. Tin of soup probably and maybe some veg on the side :/
Want to avoid fruit and carbs really

BsshBossh · 29/12/2013 18:18

Toffee your poor DH Grin. My DD insisted DH join us at the movie! I have to admit I did enjoy it a bit Blush and I noticed that DH didn't fall asleep.

Reading the first 5:2 thread reminded me about Dr M's recommendation about eating less protein and more plant-based foods to encourage cell repair (as opposed to cell growth). I'd forgotten about this. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

TalkinPeace · 29/12/2013 18:35

teach me to get snippy at people ....
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/fasting_diet/1950612-shattering-the-myth-of-fasting-for-women?
could some of you pile in with a more measured tone please Xmas Wink

wintersdawn · 29/12/2013 18:35

Hi all seriously thinking of starting fasting as wol for new year, dh has agreed to join me from a health rather than weight point of view but will be good to have the support.
Just wondered how you found exercising on fasting days or do you try and use fast days as rest days?
Also I notice a lot of you only do one meal a day, do you have young kids? I'm seriously doubting my will power of preparing kids meals and snacks without eating anything myself till they are in bed (will power issues being why I'm the size I am in the first place!).

Mum2Fergus · 29/12/2013 18:40

Evening all, so first FD nearing an end...and I've done grand! Plenty of water, couple cups of tea, measured pasta and sauce...showing as 497 calories in MFP. Pretty pleased Smile back to work tomorrow so will be out of way of temptation...

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 29/12/2013 18:43

Done, Tip. Why will it teach you though? You were right!

Mazzledazzle · 29/12/2013 18:44

Well I came in at 1600 cals today, with plenty fruit & veg. and spent a lovely afternoon at the park running about with DH and kids.

Felt so much more in control keeping track of my cals on MFP. I've actually still cals left to use up, but I'm not hungry. So as Talkinpeace suggested I used it to monitor my intake whilst at the same time listening to my body.

Planning on fasting tomorrow as we're entertaining on Tues and meeting up with family on Wed and there's sure to be lots of scrummy food and drink on the go!

If you don't mind me asking Emma why are you avoiding fruit on your FD? It's my FD tomorrow too, and I've soup on the hob that's 80cals per ladle.

What do you drink on FD? I know you count the milk you use in tea/coffee, but what about diet soft drinks?

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 29/12/2013 18:48

Tip,BreadAndWine, 16:8 exercisers

5:2 has the advantage of being a healthy WOL, with most days being NFDs, when the body can recuperate.

Most of the problems reported by women with IF don't really seem to be caused by IF, but the combination of tough protocols for both IF - daily 16:8 - and very demanding fasted training - lifting multiples of body weight, increasing over time.

I do NOT want protocols developed for the 0.1% of the population who want to be super bodybuilders or lifters to put off ordinary people from doing 5:2

Some women have brilliant results on these protocols and are evangelical about them.
Others have had good results for 6 months or so, then had injuries or health problems, particularly those women with very low (12-18%) body fat or not under direct supervision of an IF-cognisant trainer.

Men just don't seem as vulnerable to additional stress on IF.

Note: Sites like LeanGains have a lot of useful information, but we need to be cautious when referring to them, to stress they are for the fittest and even then not for all fit women.

I'll reply to the thread and also mention this on my planned exercise thread.

BsshBossh · 29/12/2013 19:00

I'm currently mainlining leftover Christmas biscuits. I looked at the calendar: a few days to go until TOTM. Quel surpris.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 29/12/2013 19:16

Just seen an advert for 5:2 food being sold in Superdrug. Anybody tried them?