The 5:2 thread number 29 - The C word party season is not too far off, come join us and drop a few pounds. Warning! This way of eating is so easy you may never want to stop...

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Bayliss. Thanks. They are so small and so lovely and so fecking infuriating at times.

Cookoo. Yep. To getting DD aka ringleader under control. She loves to help so I think assigning a few jobs to her would help. DS also likes to help but only if he is standing on top of my feet (in my way) and doing exactly what I am doing. Unless it involves water somehow. A bucket and brush and scrub the floor . Not likely.

I certainly deposited all my anger and frustration with Jillians Ripped in 30 today.

If only I could get my lardy arse out of bed at 6:30 and do my workout then. I'd be set for the day and mellow.

If I had a coffee machine next to my bed so I could mainline a coffee it may just be possible? How long does a thermos flask keep things warm?

What matters is that people treat 5:2 as a way of life, not a diet.
Somebody asked me today why I still fast despite being thin.
My reply was "brandy snaps, whipped cream and cava after a BBQ on Friday night"
she grinned and got it.

I agree, Talk, about junk food not being a natural part of our diet.

Perhaps I didn't take into consideration as I rarely eat processed food, not even bread, but somehow have managed to be obese.

Talkin.

This is working for me because I can eat all food groups and don't need any "special" food. And I can easily have some as required and a cheeky bit of chocolate and biscuits and cheese on a Saturday night.

And I am still losing weight. Admittedly I could do it faster if I didn't do any of the above but:

The special food, cutting out food groups or cutting out every treat is where every other diet as always failed for me. I've stuck to it for many months only to end up face down in chocolate and eating the contents of my fridge .

It feels like its part of my life rather than an uphill slog to get to a goal. I still have a goal/goals but will carry on with a FD a week to maintain and so I can have a treat.

I still eat far more healthily! I am mindful of where my calories go and avoid wasting them on stuff which won't fill me up. I eat way more veg than I ever have and way less junk and choc than I ever have.

Pre DC I was very slim but ate junk. Pure junk. Not any more.

That said I still want in fact I demand a treat now and then.

Bigchocfrenzy and Cookoo. I'm not knocking your efforts but it sounds very tough. I may do it for a week but not the whole of November.

erm..... a funsize mars isn't classed as sugary is it?

CONFESSION: I should probably clear few things up. Wine I was going to give up anyway. I pretty much had (first time since started drinking!) back in spring. It bloats me something chronic and ever since I got chunky I find it really hard on the stomach after couple of days with acid reflux etc. It is probably responsible for 75% of my weight gain. Add to that, it is a depressant and I have been able to keep the black dog off my back so much better since cutting right down. I will always be drinker though! But this suits for now.

Also I am 4:3 ing as much as poss between now and Christmas because it is something I want to do. This only actually means I'm cutting out sweet junk 2 days a week as I tend to avoid on a fast day anyway. So it is not as drastic as sounds.

Lastly but most importantly - this is a challenge, not a 'must do'. I have always been a believer that a little of what you fancy and all that. I know key to success is not through deprivation, so, whilst I will be trying to cut out sugar where poss, I won't be making myself miserable with it. If I really really want something - I will have it. And I will enjoy every last second of it too, not guiltily scoff and then beat myself up afterwards.

It's a bit of 'fun' to kick start my countdown to Christmas. I'm also fresh from totm so best chances for success are next few weeks.

To the starvation mode comment - just remember there are lots of other delicious food items out there unhealthy or otherwise. This is just about the blatantly sugar packed crap.

MrsF grin]

And I'm pretty sure I said you DON'T have to obsess about food :(

MrsF here is a proper ! We crossed threads - that was for previous comment.

I was also only doing weekdays if read my original post about it, so that means 2 days a week! Sat and sun my face will be resting on the bottom of the celebrations tub, if it so wishes.

Also, it is just by cheeky coincidence that the 'challenges' were on here this morning regarding giving up. I had to smile as I cashed in with my brave efforts, because I was going to do it anyway. Had a really bad week last week and have def gained! I will be miserable if I don't start losing again quick sharp.

Mrsflorrick - was in free to download jm ripped? I have never tired it only shred. Even though I know it works I get so bored doing the sake thing day after day. So I might a couple of her other DVDs! Or even better if its free to download then great.

Also I know how you feel, my dd is 5 and generally well behaved but when she is naughty and I'm not feeling in the best place to handle it I have shouted and felt very mean before sending hugs ((()))

Bigchoc Tip I find cheese makes an excellent replacement for chocolate

No Naughties November - I like it, I'm doing it too. So for me, that's no sweet stuff for 2 weeks, then after that only at weekends. Booze is going back to just weekends too.

I heartily disapprove of replacing sugar with sweetener crap though - that's still letting your system expect sweet stuff and mucking about with your brain chemistry. tuts

Cheese, however, is in.

I'm not brilliant at limiting myself so just knowing I can't have something really helps me. It's why I love fast days - staffroom biscuits are off limits no matter what! So I'm just extending that ethos.

I agree with people who have done years of WW and equivalent and don't want the deprivation - 5:2 works so well precisely because you don't have to stop eating any particular food group.

However, I find it hard to moderate myself with sugar intake. It's been much better since I started 5:2 BUT I still need to keep it in check. Now I know the science behind it I don't berate myself but I would prefer to be in control. So, in order to eat sugar mindfully I have to ditch it completely for a couple of weeks every 6 months.

I prefer life when I can eat sugary stuff for pleasure rather than in a frenzied compulsion. When it becomes compulsive it's not enjoyable.

So, like 5:2, it's a short term deprivation for a greater goal: mindful eating and greater control over what I put into my body.

Betsy you sound like my dp. He can't have wine in the house and not drink it. I on the other hand can take it or leave it if it's here. But if you tell me I can't have something, I want it all the more. Stick it in front of me and tell me I can have it whenever I want, and suddenly it's lost it's appeal.

Sounds like the key to getting sorted is working out how one's own mind works regards food/drink and using the appropriate methods to suit you.

For me it is about saying - look if you really want it, then have it. But if you don't then that is bonus points. And on fd's - I can have it tomorrow never fails to do the trick.

Thankfully 5:2 works for all, it's just about what you tell yourself.

There are always exceptions of course. Life isn't a smooth road, therefore to expect our woe to go smoothly all the time would be setting ourselves up for fail. Just do your best as often as can. Pressure off!

Referring to snacks and crap in last post btw.

Just at awkward time of day now. Only had about 30 cals of coffees today - still backed up with carbs probably :) - But don't know what to do for dinner. Everything and nothing appeals to taste buds! Bloody annoying!

It's a funny one Cuckoo as I actually rather like having certain items in the house and being proud of the fact I am no eating it. However, I have no idea when the snack monster is going to hit (well I do, if it hits that day it's usually between 4 and 6pm!) and then if I ask myself if I really want that thing, the answer is usually a resounding YES I BLOODY DO!

I do also enjoy a challenge. I don't always stick to them but it makes me more mindful nonetheless. It's the 'think about every mouthful and enjoy it' I like. Mindless scoffing holds no pleasure. I bloody love food, I want every mouthful to be a joy!

Haha! Lol-ing at image of Betsy stood in front of mirror clutching snacks shouting like wild woman!

Howdy all. Still at work and had a great FD - coffee when I arrived, a delicious but overpriced soup from Pret and that's it so far. The biscuit barrel that sits five feet from where I'm typing this was filled up two hours ago but I'm not tempted to put my hands in there - work's still hectic so it's a good distraction.

I bought too much food last week with my online food order and as I'm moving in a few weeks and quite broke at the moment, I need to do a food inventory and tonight's the only time this week I can do it. Oh well, I'll just have to have a pile of veggies beforehand with some sardines to fill me up.

I'm interested in reducing my sugar intake so will do this for maybe a week sometime this month, give up a few items I mean.

How are Itsa and Thewildthings doing?

Way, way back on one of the early threads I remember a poster being so gobsmacked that she was allowed a massive cheese, ham and branston sandwich that she was not in fact able to eat it .....

and I think it was ManOnBoard in the early threads who had a "secret" cake habit that vanished once they were allowed .....

SO MUCH of food problems are in the head.

I personally think that all eating disorders (obesity, anorexia, bulimia etc) should be treated in the same clinic - if nothing else to make sure everybody realises that disordered eating is a symptom, not the cause.

..and yes, totally agree! Make every mouthful count.

betsey I'm so fascinated by the lustily lecture - thanks so much for link.

I always wanted to know how sugars are different. Seems like glucose might be the healthiest sugar,

Anyway feeling quite fired up about taking time off. It ain't gonna happen while breast feeding though - I'm sure there is some interesting science behind breast feeders craving sweet stuff, I seem to have quite an extreme craving.

cuckoo You know you see nature documentaries when a panther is growling and keeping other animals away from her freshly killed dinner - it's more like that!

Though I did just have a wild woman flip out at my kids (MrsF may be interested to hear that!) - I'm just starting to remember how difficult winter evenings are. Just had a very long family meeting to try and work out how we're all going to deal with it! We'll see if that works...

I should add that I watched the sugar lecture whilst eating fruit pies. But also cream which we now know is fine. Mmnnnnnnnnnmmmmmmmmmm.

That was agree to Betsy delayed posting due to cooking!

Tip I agree totally with you too. Food has become an emotional crutch, a boredom breaker, a weapon of power and control over ourselves.

But it's actual job has long been forgotten! It is a fuel for our engines, nothing more! Put crap in and don't expect great performance.

Personally, I think we can get best of both worlds with a bit of 5:2 and a bit of mindfulness. We can enjoy food as long as we don't do so at cost to our bodies long term health. That just means sitting up and examining what our habits are.

Looking back I have always loved food. But I never had a weight problem until after dd was born when by coincidence I went through a lot of crap over course of few yrs. The weight piled on and I got into comfort eating/drinking. It stopped being fuel.

After my first few fast days I was reminded of what I actually needed to eat versus what I wanted to eat. My appetite shrank and I was naturally turned off of the 'bad' food groups as the sugar and carb and salt build up left my body. It's easily undone of course!! But it is amazing to realise how much we just shovel stuff in without thinking about it!

It doesn't matter whether you are a pure whole foods only type, or a processed convenience food type - if you overeat, you will get fat. End of! But you can eat a lot more of the right foods for same cals and live longer too!

Who did the post about..

What you want
When you want
How much you want

Pick 2

Apologies can't remember it exactly! But that was BRILLIANT! Get it back up!!

Was it Eat referencing Tip recently???

it was eatriskier on 2/11/13 at 12:53

shall add it to tips and hints ...

That is brilliant.