Daughter not made a sixer when a younger child was

[tomtom88]

Ok so please be kind.

Daughter is in Brownies, the old leaders left recently and a new leader took over. I appreciate all the leaders are volunteers.

Without warning - the new leader allocated sixer and seconder roles, with my daughter being given a seconder role in a group of 2 where the other girl was the same age. In another group a child a year younger, who is a lovely girl but very scatty was given the sixer role. At the meeting brown owl said these are not permanent roles because sometimes I change things and swap things about.

Daughter gutted not to be a sixer.

I messaged brown owl in a very polite way thanking her for taking over the group, expressing that my daughter was disappointed, and drawing her attention to the fact a younger girl. I asked are these decisions permanent (she has implied they were not at the session)
Anyway she got back and said, oh your daughter will get the opportunity "at some point" eg not specified so could mean never if they cannot expand the group and then stated " she couldn't now take the opportunity to be a sixer off one of the other girls" although obviously by chosing the other girls and not being flexible she has effectively taken the opportunity to be a sixer from my daughter. I would have thought she should have given thought before allocating the younger girl in yr3 to be a sixer and perhaps swapped the girls over in their groups so the yr3 became the seconder and my daughter the sixer int he other group.

Long read - any thoughts

I am a Beaver and Cub leader and the best advice I can give is back off and stop being that parent. We spend hundreds if hours a year doing this, most of us know what we are doing even if you don't understand it. The only times I've come close to jacking it in is because of parents like you. Teach your child to be resilient and celebrate the role she has been given!

@tomtom88 to echo all the others - If you can do it better get warranted and take the brownie pack over.

Other wise butt the hell out - parents like you are why these groups are short of volunteers.

You’ve decided the younger girl is less deserving than your dc on basis you think she’s ‘scatty’. Surely you must see how ridiculous that is.
In Guides we gave a role to a much younger one - she does lots of badges in own time, helps with brownies and rainbows, excellent attendance and lovely attitude. The other parents wouldn’t have a clue she was like that.

My thoughts are...you need to get over it, unless you plan on going in every time your daughter gets over looked.

Sorry that you daughter is a bit miffed - but really there is no serious issue here. Being a sixer is no big deal.

You need to either volunteer and then make these decisions yourself or just accept the way the cookie has crumbled and encourage your daughter to not dwell on it.

And going forward you have to not get so involved in such minor things. There are much bigger things ahead in the next ten years

I didn't think I would get so much anger for raising an issue that is important to my daughter and sharing it in this space to gauge views. I wouldn't say there is anger but more surprise at the sense of entitlement that it should be your DD that gets the role.

I do think some people just jump on the op without really attempting to understand why they posted
I know exactly why I have posted. As a former volunteer and a DH that was a volunteer sports coach (notice past tense) we were sick to the back teeth of parents demanding explanations to our decisions as to why their kid wasn't picked of this, that or the other. Decisions were not taken in isolation but we looked at different factors and didn't always go for what parents thought was the obvious choice.
I have worked in family support for years and I see which children have always had demanding parents, who expect their children to get the best roles and are outraged when they don't get them. These children don't have the ability to shake themselves down and get on with it.

We used to joke when we volunteered. Our job would be much more enjoyable for the children if we didn't have to contend with the parents. Except it wasn't really a joke, it was true!

Lord Baden Powell formed these children’s groups, and they definitely were originally like mini ranks.

I posted upthread , but also sometimes someone is given ' a job ' because it would be good for them , perhaps confidence , bringing out of shell , self esteem , etc . I've seen that happen in the adult world as well .

Honestly it’s beggars belief that you want to give an hour a week of games and craft and other fun activities this much headspace.
As others have said, support her in her disappointment and support the leader - you have no idea of all the dynamics of the group and other children. Otherwise your daughter becomes known as ‘that child’ with ‘that parent’
The amount of effort it takes to run a group like this as a volunteer is totally unseen and unappreciated - it’s not just rocking up for an hour to do activities, it’s first aid training, safety training, planning, prep, accounts, admin. I think I spent close to 4 hours a week on average running a similar group. Parents have no idea as they’re ‘too busy’ yet most volunteers are working parents too.

OP I don’t think there’s much you can do now. It may be there’s a rationale behind the decision or it could be that they aren’t that great on fair decision-making. As it’s volunteer led then some people will be brilliant and others won’t be well-suited or will be on a power-trip, and everything in between. As PPs have suggested, would you consider joining as a volunteer?

Tbh although Brownies/Guides etc. has upsides, it’s not something I would want my kids involved with. My experience was that it was rife with bullying, favouring certain kids, ingrained gender stereotypes and when I was involved I was forced to swear a religious oath and belittled for not wanting to (I believe they have changed that now.)

What a great reply, HappySon! I am itching to slap the entitled parent and she must be a very unpopular person if this is her reaction every time precious daughter is passed over for something. I used to hate parents like this when my children were at school. They were forever making appts to see the teacher, or worse still, the Head because of some imagined slight. Poster needs to help her daughter deal with the disappointment, but not let her daughter believe she should have been chosen. She would have been discounted for a reason. Possibly because the person chosen was better suited for the position!
This is why I didn’t volunteer to help at my children’s school. I couldn’t face having to deal with parents like this one!

This x100.
This is actually a really useful learning experience for your daughter and you have mismanaged it IMHO.
A lot of life is about dusting yourself off after disappointment and getting on with things.

At my primary school we make a point of giving the Mary role to a plain or bespectacled child whenever possible, on principle!

tomtom88 · Today 11:34

I dont think "I am making myself look silly" by asking a perfectly reasonable question. My daughter herself was upset and disappointed and as a parent I questioned the decision

Your daughter will face countless disappointments in life: each one an opportunity to develop resilience.

The response from brown owl is diplomatic. We manage behaviour in group so a parent wouldn’t be told your dc isn’t a good listener/messes around in toilets/never tidies up when asked to unless it was a real issue. If you do help you may see what your dc is like within the group dynamics.

I'm a voluntary youth group leader too and I don't think the OP did anything wrong. Leaders are not saints just because they volunteer or unable to make mistakes. We are just humans and will make the wrong decision sometimes. Its also hard as a leader, when a parents questions your decision, not to be defensive and 'high handed' but its really important to listen and understand.

I feel a huge sense of responsibility as a leader to make sure I am meeting the children's needs and parents expectations. If a parent came to me and explained how a child was upset I would be disappointed that this had happened but would also want to know.

As a parent too I sympathise and there have been times I have wanted to question a decision but have felt I can't because I don't want to be 'that parent' and maybe I should have supported my child.

I would also say that in my group we are dealing with lots of things - children with diagnosed and suspected SEND, friendship issues outside the group, pushy parents and so much more but we want to make sure every child feels safe and happy. I would say that parents may sometimes not understand every decision because they don't know all they children's needs. I had one parent questions why they couldn't play certain games and I couldn't explain that it wasn't possible for a particular child to play for various reasons related to SEND so the answer I gave probably sounded vague and dismissive. There may be a reason the other child was chosen to be a Sixer and this reason cannot be shared with you. Alternatively the leader may be kicking herself after making a quick decision and is now looking at ways to make sure no one ends up disappointed.

I volunteered at son’s school and happily as a volunteer, no one ever had to deal with parents.

It was lovely- one got to do the fun stuff with the children, and had none of the hard stuff that teachers and classroom assistants had to deal with.

Give it a go, you might like it!
My son spoke highly of the lovely volunteers who helped him with his reading- ( no one had their own DC in with them).

I don't understand all the fuss about Mary anyway. The narrators are the best roles.

I think it would have looked unfair if sisters got a position each. It was stated that everyone will get a chance so wait it out. Your daughter's chance will come. It will also give her the opportunity to learn that not everyone can have their own way even if their mum demands it and sometimes you just have to deal and move on.

Please don't be that parent.
This is not the thing you need to get worried about. There may be kids that never get a chance unless they rotate it regularly.

If you are going to be that parent, go and volunteer.
Be a regular leader & help organise and plan sessions and events & find out what Brown Owls plans are.
Help them grow the group.

But don't be that parent if you're not willing to get involved properly.
They are all volunteers who have jobs and families much like yours, and who knows whats going on in their lives, but they make the time to offer these opportunities for your kids.

Being in Guiding & Scouting is a privilege as there are not enough places for everyone.

Another poster said if your not happy,go else where....good luck with that. Our local groups have wait lists so long if they aren't on there by the time they are 4 they have no chance.

They need more volunteers and people that can help plan and run sessions not parents moaning that their little Daisy didn't get to be Sixer or Patrol Leader.

The idea behind sixes/patrols is to have mixed age groups to do activities and encourage them to make different friends. If you are doing a task or game then having all 7yr olds in one group and all 10yr olds in another doesn’t work.
The sixer gets a bit more responsibility eg sixers come and get the pens and paper and give them out to your group.
All the girls still do all the activities.
OP’s daughter has a role a seconder so she’ll be it if her sixer is away or leaves.

No! Narrators never get to dress up!

Narrators ( I was narrator too often as had a loud clear voice) blend in without lovely dresses !

Please don't get involved

It's the Brownies, it's not personal to your daughter and if anything, it's a lesson in resilience for her that sometimes things don't happen the way you want them to go.

Just say that there will be probably another opportunity for her soon

If you get involved, she will start thinking she's entitled to the role ... and entitlement is not a character trait you want to encourage

This

Mary was THE coveted role ( in a C of E school anyway) given to the girl who was generally good, kind and sensible, and had the requisite long brown hair.

The boys good at sport were the Three Wise Men.
We didn’t have children playing animals, but the quiet boys were shepherds.