Daughter not made a sixer when a younger child was

[tomtom88]

Ok so please be kind.

Daughter is in Brownies, the old leaders left recently and a new leader took over. I appreciate all the leaders are volunteers.

Without warning - the new leader allocated sixer and seconder roles, with my daughter being given a seconder role in a group of 2 where the other girl was the same age. In another group a child a year younger, who is a lovely girl but very scatty was given the sixer role. At the meeting brown owl said these are not permanent roles because sometimes I change things and swap things about.

Daughter gutted not to be a sixer.

I messaged brown owl in a very polite way thanking her for taking over the group, expressing that my daughter was disappointed, and drawing her attention to the fact a younger girl. I asked are these decisions permanent (she has implied they were not at the session)
Anyway she got back and said, oh your daughter will get the opportunity "at some point" eg not specified so could mean never if they cannot expand the group and then stated " she couldn't now take the opportunity to be a sixer off one of the other girls" although obviously by chosing the other girls and not being flexible she has effectively taken the opportunity to be a sixer from my daughter. I would have thought she should have given thought before allocating the younger girl in yr3 to be a sixer and perhaps swapped the girls over in their groups so the yr3 became the seconder and my daughter the sixer int he other group.

Long read - any thoughts

Surely the response is
Oh well never mind DD. You will be going up to Guides sooner.

Parents who criticise people who give up their own time to volunteer to make children's lives a bit more fun and interesting are the lowest of the low. Get up off your arse and do it yourself, then...

It's fine you're upset with the decision but it is brown owls decision, who you yourself acknowledge is a volunteer trying her best when older volunteers left.

Shes done what she can to keep the group together.

You've no idea her rationale for appointing the roles. As someone said she might have given the sixer roles to girls in more need of learning responsibility. You're only critiquing her decision because she didn't agree with you.

I appreciate you're sad for your daughter, but this is a good opportunity to teach her you don't always get what you want and learn some resilience.

I remember a similar scenario with a sporting group and my DS when he was young. He was passed over for an opportunity for which he had worked hard and it was given to someone else who didn’t meet the criteria. My DH was planning to email and point this out as DS was disappointed. I asked him not to, not only because it was a dick move to hustle the coach but because the more valuable lesson for DS was learning to deal with disappointment. Life is not fair sometimes. Our reaction to this is one of the most valuable character-building lessons there is. DS got over it quickly, and doubled down at the club. Dealing with minor disappointments at a young age is so important and really helps with empathy.

So if its 4 groups of 2 was that so she could give everyone a sixer or seconder role?

Opposed to 2 groups of 4?

When I was at brownies, you were in your 6 and there was always a sixer and seconder. There wasn't a time when the sixes didn't have them, and if it wasn't you. It wasn't you.

You've given no indication as to why you feel there was no thought put in beyond your daughter didn't get the role she wanted. In a bigger cohert your daughter may never have been a sixer or a seconder.

It isn't an inappropriate decision, Brown Owl awards the roles and they're usually permanent. If she said anything that implied things could change that was probably to manage any feelings of disappointment or nerves amongst the children, not an opening for you to try and implement your vision of how the sixes should be set when you didn't volunteer yourself.

Your daughters sixer is the same age so by your logic even if she'd made the alternative decision there would be the same problem except your child would get her way

I’m a brownie leader and our brown owl ensures every one gets a chance to be sixer and seconder. It tends to be they become seconder after a year and sixer a year later but it does depend on girls leaving.

I've got 7 Cubs due to move up to Scouts at the same time due to how their birthdays and School holidays fall... unfortunately they can't all be sixers. Last term it was 5 at the same time...

You asked people to be kind. Then you complained bitterly about the treatment handed out to your daughter which you deemed to be unfair. Do you think that’s being kind?
You are a typical pushy mother whose child is clearly better than anyone else’s. I think you are well out of line and should think about what your thoughts are doing to your poor daughter who is probably really embarrassed by the whole thing. Get a grip, for goodness’ sake!

Heck this takes me back 50+ years! I was a seconder ready to move up to be a sixer when the current sixer left. This happened whilst we were on holiday and when I went back someone else had been made sixer. To my horror my dad went down and sorted out Brown Owl! The only time I ever remember him standing up for me.

This. I was a leader at Cubs. We got a lot if flak, people complaining, people unhappy about waiting lists etc. we oft appealed for new helpers, no takers.

I’m a brownie leader and we tend to do it by age and move people around if needed. So that everyone gets a chance of sixer presenter. Some do both but not always. It can depend on many things though. Before I took over helping in the unit my eldest had already been in brownies 3 years. She was never made seconded. She’s an August birthday. They leave at 10 but not always as soon as they turn 10. One girl turned 10 and should have left at the Xmas but decided to stay until the summer. This then meant my daughter didn’t get the opportunity to move up to sixer. It didn’t scar her though. She went onto guides and is not a ranger and a young leader.

in our unit we have 3 sixes. If we happen to have 4 girls of the same age leaving around the same time then one does end up losing out and to being a sixer and being a seconder. I can see in your situation there was a younger child given sixer over the seconder role. Personally we wouldn’t have done this unless the older girl joined really late and missed out that way.

When my daughter missed out I didn’t really say anything. It was all fine. I’m also a teacher and don’t feel comfortable when parents try to tell me how to do my job so didn’t want to say anything as a parent to a volunteer either. I think it’s just something you need to leave alone.

Difficult. Whatever way the roles land will be percieved as unfair to someone.

You say your daughter is gutted? Is this because her expectations were not managed at the time? Brownies don't get these roles as of right, it's not simply a matter of age or amount of time you've been enrolled.

Our Brownies put their names forward and have to be prepared to speak about why they should be considered.

If your daughter is actually unhappy, I'd ask that Brown Owl give her some time for a private chat about the situation and then if she's still not settled, ask her what she wants to do about it.

It may be that another pack/leader would be a better fit. No two packs are the same and there's nothing wrong in transferring.

I know this has been said before but this type of thing is why I stopped being a cub leader !

I ended being berated by a parent because his son wasn’t a picked to lead a six/den of cubs. But a child a month younger was the fact that his child was poorly behaved and various other reason including actually I had got the birthday muddled up! He demanded as you appear to be doing that this was taken off another child to accommodate his. This would be clearly unfair to do to a child having something taken off them is much harder in the child.

I would suggest you roll up your sleeves to help the pack grow by volunteering. They are clearly trying to give people a change to be sixers and seconded by the ridiculously small six size

Plenty might disagree with me but I think we all did better when parents were a little bit more detached and removed from the minutiae of children's lives. It allowed children to face these ups and downs themselves and get on with it. It doesn't mean it was perfect, not a chance, or that volunteers were infallible or that parents were horribly disinterested but there was an understanding that good enough was good enough. Yes people will remember things that smarted and sometimes adults should have jumped in for more difficult situations, but generally we were more resilient for navigating these things ourselves.

I am v grateful to all the volunteers that facilitate a wonderful extra curricular programme for my dc each week, and I volunteer myself as a committee member also. Everyone is just doing their best.

I don't understand why both aren't just celebrating her appointment as seconder.

That's an achievement too. She should be proud

Because there's two in the group!!

Similar thing happened to me, I was a seconder in the Elves and my sixer left to go to Guides but a new, louder girl started and they gave the sixer to her! She'd only be there a few weeks and I'd been there a few years. I was a quieter girl so probably they thought she'd be better at it, and as an adult I can reflect that she probably was good in the role but I was only 10. I would say I learnt a lesson from it but what actually happened was I was furious and I refused to go back, never went to Brownies again. It would've been about 35 years ago and I am still cross about it.

You seem very entitled!

That is an overreaction and you are definitely over thinking and over involved. A breezy oh sometimes these things happen would be more helpful to your daughter in managing future little disappointments in life.
Also, sometimes children who would benefit from a little responsibility are given the opportunity to help with self confidence. The Brownies is all about social development and having fun.

@tomtom88
Your DD will get the chance to be a Sixer. The Brown Owl has said she will have the opportunity. What she isn't going to do is take being a Sixer off another Brownie. How fair would that be? Don't you think it would knock the other child's confidence? "You're Sixer" one week and then the next "You're not Sixer anymore. Another Brownie and her interfering mum wants it instead."
The Brown Owl isn't saying forever. She's saying currently. You and your DD just need to be patient. YABVU

When DD was a brownie they did it by birthday. Because she is a summer birthday there was no way in hell she would have ever got to be a sixer, which seemed really unfair. It was a big deal to her and disappointing. We didn't stick it out in the end mainly because other hobbies took over but the 0% chance of being a sixer played its part.

So you think some people ‘just jump on the op without really attempting to understand why they posted’. Really? It couldn’t be because you are so entitled that you think your daughter should come before everyone else??
You are making a rod for your child’s back if you teach her that she is more deserving of everything than anyone else. Why do you think she should be the one to be a sixer? What makes her better for the role than the other child? You are being pushy, interfering and TOTALLY unreasonable! Back off and let the leader do her job, or, better still, take your daughter out of the group and give everyone some peace.
I have no patience with people like you who think the world should revolve around them and their offspring, and a pushy parent is one of worst things a child could have to cope with.

Another former leader of over 20 years here. I needed to give up but no one was prepared to take over and the group closed. I had more than my fair share of pushy parents but they weren’t prepared to volunteer and put in the hours needed to run the unit. Guiding has changed and there is a lot of admin work and recording of each girls achievements, it can take hours if the unit is large.
As far as the 8 girls and 4 sixes is concerned, I think it’s possible that the new Brown Owl is hoping to recruit more girls (as a pp has already said) and has decided to keep the sixes as they were. At the moment it just means that each girl has a badge with Sixer or Second on it and no responsibility, hopefully numbers will increase and they will get the responsibility.
The op is coming across as a very pushy parents, the likes of which are difficult to deal with. Try volunteering, op, it’s not as straightforward as you seem to think.

for gods sake don’t be that parent!