Daughter not made a sixer when a younger child was

[tomtom88]

Ok so please be kind.

Daughter is in Brownies, the old leaders left recently and a new leader took over. I appreciate all the leaders are volunteers.

Without warning - the new leader allocated sixer and seconder roles, with my daughter being given a seconder role in a group of 2 where the other girl was the same age. In another group a child a year younger, who is a lovely girl but very scatty was given the sixer role. At the meeting brown owl said these are not permanent roles because sometimes I change things and swap things about.

Daughter gutted not to be a sixer.

I messaged brown owl in a very polite way thanking her for taking over the group, expressing that my daughter was disappointed, and drawing her attention to the fact a younger girl. I asked are these decisions permanent (she has implied they were not at the session)
Anyway she got back and said, oh your daughter will get the opportunity "at some point" eg not specified so could mean never if they cannot expand the group and then stated " she couldn't now take the opportunity to be a sixer off one of the other girls" although obviously by chosing the other girls and not being flexible she has effectively taken the opportunity to be a sixer from my daughter. I would have thought she should have given thought before allocating the younger girl in yr3 to be a sixer and perhaps swapped the girls over in their groups so the yr3 became the seconder and my daughter the sixer int he other group.

Long read - any thoughts

I’m a volunteer girl guiding leader and the amount of parental emails and time it takes up is a really recent change especially in younger age groups. Parents micromanaging and attempting to spare child from any disappointment. A few years ago this is just something parents wouldn’t have got involved in.
Had a lengthy email recently as a 4 yr child was ‘sad’ they hadn’t had a turn at a game. So many emails that x must be in her group with her ‘best friend’.
There’s a massive shortage of volunteers. It sounds like this leader has taken over a small pack in danger of closing.
Things like moving start time may have been due to her paid work.
Leader will have made her sixer decision based on various factors and the response that your dc may get a turn seems reasonable. If they get more brownies they may move things around - are a lot due to come up from rainbows so she’s putting structure in place etc. It’s not a role always given on age as another poster has mentioned.
I’d speak to brown owl and thank her for taking over and see if you can help either in meetings or with admin, trips etc.

I do really understand why you feel this way, OP. My mum always pushed for me in these situations because she wanted me to feel she backed me. But as an adult I think maybe it would have been more useful for me if she'd helped me to manage the disappointment, because it has taken me a long time as an adult and a lot of work to get past the idea that if other people don't choose me for special things like this then I must not be very worthwhile or important. With my kid when she doesn't get chosen for things I try to let her express how disappointed she is, and acknowledge that it's frustrating and sad not to be picked, but to remind her of the things she has been chosen for, and to think of all the things she knows she does well. What I'm saying is, if it were me I would absolutely share my daughter's disappointment but I would try to help her to tolerate it (and try to tolerate my own).

OP maybe your daughter isn’t responsible or mature enough for the role, at least you know now that if/ when your daughter does become a sixer, she would have got the role due to your interference rather than earning it herself.

If you carry on,you will be

it turns out the brown owl had made a crap impulsive decision

The brown owl made a decision that a parent didn't agree with. That doesn't necessarily mean that the decision was crap or impulsive.

I think it's fair that a parent should encourage their child to ask how they can work towards being a sixer in future. It's not fair to email the leader, or to call them high handed.

You can't possibly know if the other child deserves it.
You are being that parent. One of my children was never made a leader in scouts, one is the highest patrol leader. There is a good reason for both those decisions.

Absolutely this.
Where A family member works, there used to be parents turning up asking for roles for their teenage sons.

They never got a training place- but when a lad turned up by himself- ready to face a workshop full of men- that showed he had the necessary character - because it is bloody scary as a teenager to approach asking for a training place.

The very rare ones who turned up alone were treated with respect they deserved .

We do actually put a lot of thought and planning into things. There’s usually a good reason for things that parents wouldn’t be privy to - x and y play up if put together, z has additional needs and an adjustment plan.
In my experience kids are usually fine and happy to join in it’s the parents making a big deal about needing to be in a group with her ‘best friend’ etc.

Learning to deal with disappointment and someone, less able perhaps, being promoted above you, is part of life. Stop making a fuss, let your daughter cope, and develop some resilience. It’s Brownies ffs.

I agree with this ^

Of course your DD is disappointed. How wonderful to have the opportunity, early on, to learn how to deal with life's shit

The most helpful thing you could do is volunteer. “Before you complain, have you volunteered?”

Yep I was Seconder of the Elfs (I think!?) then became Sixer of Scottish Kelpies! Maybe it's changed.

OP you say you get that they're volunteers and not everyone can be a Sixer but you don't seem to get that at all. Age maybe isn't the only consideration either.

@sugarspiceandeverythingnice12 that's a bit patronising though. You don't know them.

I read this post in disbelief. The poster is a typical pushy mum who thinks her child is better than everyone else’s! When my children were at school age, this attitude became very apparent at the time of choosing who should be Mary in the Nativity play! Not every child can be the leader in a class and not every child gets to do what they, or their mums want.
Mothers should stand back and let the teachers act in the way they see fit (unfair or abusive treatment excluded, obviously!) Too many parents are pushy to the point of making others uncomfortable and they should back off!
I really feel sorry for teachers these days. They have a very difficult job and, unlike years ago, they are now abused and criticised by these pushy parents.
The poster is being completely unreasonable and I hope she gets put firmly in her place for wanting to ‘jump the queue’ with her child, a child who, I have no doubt, is no better or more deserving than any other in the class!
I wouldn’t be a teacher for any money! They deserve medals!

Yes I understand they are volunteers and that not everyone can be a sixer.
It really doesn't look like it. Seriously!

But I do feel the decision was not thought through and will impact my daughter negatively.
Your reaction is what will impact you daughter. This is a great opportunity in resilience and how to bounce back. The choice may not have been thought through, or it may well have been and they have taken into account things you don't know about. Your job as a parent is to support with disappointments and the trick is not to dwell on them or bang on about how unfair it is or demand that your daughter gets the position. I stopped volunteering years ago with youth work because of demands by parents that had absolutely nothing to do with them. DH packed in coaching a sport because of the same reason.

Being pragmatic it is what it is and will not change so daughter needs to make her own choice

Why does she need to make a choice. If she enjoys going she just keeps going, instead of spitting her dummy out. Again, her reaction will mirror yours. In your shoes I would be saying that you hope ( child's name who has been selected) will make a great sixer! Teach about good sportsmanship and not to be the one that is bitter.

No, we get it, you're just being crazy. Your daughter doesn't have a "right" to be a Sixer and the leader doesn't need to be "flexible" about it.

One thing parents don’t see is how kids are in group setting. I’ve had parent helpers pleasantly surprised how capable their daughters are - she doesn’t do that at home! (they are always eager to volunteer to hoover at end etc) Some are far more suited to certain roles than others.

Seeing as you’re so happy to point out how wrong everything this person is doing is I assume you’ve now stepped up to help?

Why would any child expect to be a Sixer? That's appalling parenting, far more detrimental to the child's life than missing out on a role in Brownies.

There's a thread running about the crisis in parenting.

Don’t tell her that! If she volunteers, she will be putting her daughter up for any roles she wants to play, and will be expecting her to be top dog in everything! She is a pushy mum, and the sooner she realises this and lets teachers, brownie leaders etc. do their jobs without her criticism, the happier everyone will be!
This must embarrass her daughter immensely.

It's supposed to be a hobby.
Not everyone can have the 'lead role' in group based activity. You can't just tell the brown owl to sack the other kid in favour of yours?
She needs to learn to accept the rules. I personally would think this type of thing isn't great as it almost sounds like ranks in the army!
But if she enjoys it, then she must take the rough with the smooth.

The Kelpie badge looks so cool ! ( only seen the English ones).

I used to do all my sixers by age but got really,really moaned at by a mother because her daughter always attended church parade and another only slightly older child didnt and got to be a sixer first.
I could see her point but you have to find the best way possible for everyone. Maybe as the guiders new she needs some thinking time.

I don't understand what age has to do with it or why you think your daughter has a given right to be a sixer? No matter what club or activity your child does, there will be highs and lows, opportunities offered and missed. Thats part of it, teaching them valuable life skills and how to deal with disappointment, because the real world doesn't give opportunities based on your age, or what your Mum thinks!

DS plays football and the captaincy was given to someone newer in the team - DS is a great player but not very vocal, the coach chose the person they felt best for the role. Of course that's subjective, but as the person who volunteers his time, it's his choice - my role was to help DS be a team player and handle the situation with dignity.

Perhaps the reason your daughter wasn't chosen is because she is not ready - getting so upset that you're intervening and trying to have the decision changed will perhaps make the leader feel she made the right choice! Stop being that parent and if you feel you can make better decisions yourself, then become a leader and be the change you want!

As a leader at Brownies we do not allocate sixer/seconders based on age. It has a lot of factors.