Daughter not made a sixer when a younger child was

[tomtom88]

Ok so please be kind.

Daughter is in Brownies, the old leaders left recently and a new leader took over. I appreciate all the leaders are volunteers.

Without warning - the new leader allocated sixer and seconder roles, with my daughter being given a seconder role in a group of 2 where the other girl was the same age. In another group a child a year younger, who is a lovely girl but very scatty was given the sixer role. At the meeting brown owl said these are not permanent roles because sometimes I change things and swap things about.

Daughter gutted not to be a sixer.

I messaged brown owl in a very polite way thanking her for taking over the group, expressing that my daughter was disappointed, and drawing her attention to the fact a younger girl. I asked are these decisions permanent (she has implied they were not at the session)
Anyway she got back and said, oh your daughter will get the opportunity "at some point" eg not specified so could mean never if they cannot expand the group and then stated " she couldn't now take the opportunity to be a sixer off one of the other girls" although obviously by chosing the other girls and not being flexible she has effectively taken the opportunity to be a sixer from my daughter. I would have thought she should have given thought before allocating the younger girl in yr3 to be a sixer and perhaps swapped the girls over in their groups so the yr3 became the seconder and my daughter the sixer int he other group.

Long read - any thoughts

Blimey !! This is a great opportunity for you to help your DD manage expectations / disappointments!!
you are very lucky to have this new leader, who only 2 weeks in is having to manage this type of rubbish !!!
leaders especially brown owls are very precious, there is much more work than the hour a week your child enjoys, finances, safeguarding, mandatory training, paperwork, planning, admin etc etc…
the worst thing about guiding - the parents !!
sixers are selected by the leaders, they aren’t gonna please all the people all the time !!!
best thing you can do to ensure your unit does not shut down is pay your subs on time, pick your child on time, return the paperwork re trips / activities etc and let them get on with it !!!

Now is the time to teach your dd that you can't always get what you want.

I can't imagine getting worked up about whether or not my dc is a sixer or a seconder

'I do understand not everyone can be a sixer'

As long as your daughter's a Sixer, that's okay, though...😘

My dd did Brownies, Guides and Rangers.
I have no idea if she was ever a sixer or a seconder or if her friends were.
I dropped her off, paid the subs on time and then left them to it.
Occasionally I made up numbers if necessary for outdoor activities.

Parents should either volunteer or mind their own business imo.

Life lesson. We can’t always have what we think we are entitled to. You getting involved is ridiculous.

My dd was similarly passed over. The leader did it by age, and once I pointed it out to her, she admitted that she got it wrong. It was rectified at the next opportunity.

This.

This x100

No wonder people aren't stepping up to volunteer for roles in Brownies, Guiding, etc if this is how some entitled parents carry on! What a thankless task.

I know this was said 10 pages ago, but I can't reiterate enough how true it is.

Why would ANYONE give up their time to volunteer to run things like Guide and Scout sections when every bit of every decision gets picked over by people who won't give their time to help, and then they get e-mails demanding to know why any small decision was made ?

You need to give your head a serious wobble, OP, then apologise to the VOULNTEER who is giving her time to run Brownies (not just on the night, but the planning and preparation, and wrangling with the IT, and their own training they do). Then think about this as an opportunity for your dd to learn that sometimes people make different choices from the one you would have liked them to make, that it is disappointing, but that life goes on and Brownies can still be enjoyable.

It's your devaluing of others that is so repugnant, OP.

You have come to a public forum and criticised someone who is volunteering their time to give your and other children a nourishing and life-enhancing experience. You've been dismissive of another child because you see your own as better. You are teaching your children to devalue others too.

Maybe Brown Owl sees potential qualities in your child and in the other girl which she hopes to bring out in the roles she has assigned them to.

I'd start teaching your child to value others. Encourage her to notice and tell you 3 good qualities about her Sixer, things she likes about her, things she does well. If your child respects and values others it will be easier for her to be happy for them.

As you can't teach something you don't understand yourself, maybe first have a think, and tell us 6 things that you respect, admire, value about Brown Owl, things you are grateful to her for.

Then focus your child on taking her Seconding seriously and doing it well, on finding her particular strengths in that role, and taking pride in them.

What I don’t understand is parents are trusting the volunteers to mind their children 90 mins a week (for £3ish) plus trips/overnights (we are all first aid trained/safeguarding trained/dbs)
Yet some are so quick to complain and assume we have deliberately decided to treat their child unfairly/deliberately gone out of our way to upset them. Emails about how we’ve devastated the child, discriminated etc. It’s often so dramatic and I think if you truly think that why let us near your child. It’s a voluntary club. I’m not saying don’t speak to us, sometimes things do get overlooked but there’s ways and tone of doing it.
Most parents and thankfully supportive. But the ones who aren’t do take up so much time and often are straw that breaks camels back. Most leaders work ft, have families or elderly relatives to care for and volunteer.

Waiting for the future thread entitled 'DD devastated as Brownie pack has folded due to lack of volunteers '.

Lack of volunteers and parents with overly entitled behaviour !!

Maybe your daughter isn't up to the responsibility of being a sixer.

You do know that any interference will have marked her card and with every additional move you make she will be less likely to be promoted

Or how about volunteering yourself op. Having spent years in many voluntary roles it is almost exclusively the parents that make the role so hard. You could contribute the couple of hours a week to go to Brownies, adding the 30 mins each side to open up and clear away, perhaps an hour a week admin, or planning, or buying craft resources, or a weekend every couple of months living in a hut with 30 girls who DON'T SLEEP, and still get shit like this from parents whose DC are a bit disappointed that they didn't get this badge, or this role.

Life doesn't work like that op. Your daughter could learn a lesson from this, but instead you're trying to teach her that if you kick up enough of a fuss you get your way. Maybe she needs to ask what she can do to show she is able to be a sixer. If she (or realistically you) doesn't like it she can leave.

Well said!

Had any time to reflect OP and think about the tidal wave of voices from VOLUNTEERS might change the situation?

Also, when have you signed up your time to help out next at the unit?

OP really. We're talking about 2IC 'leadership' role within a group of up to 6 girls aged between 7-10 that meet for what, an hour and a half a week?! Seriously, you need to put this in perspective.

Anyway... sometimes being the second in command in life is MUCH more fun. The second instruments in an orchestra often have a much more interesting part than the first instruments. Deputy Head Teachers can still enjoy teaching. COOs have a much more varied and nicely low-profile role than CEOs.

Maybe you should coach your DD through this, whilst starting the first version of her CV, making sure that the dates, main achievements and key responsibilities in her role of seconder in a six of two are clearly set out.

Or maybe you could just say 'not everyone can be a sixer darling, now what fun things did you do at brownies today'?

Me too! Reading this just reminded me I was a Sprite. Aah! Also remember using my 5p, that was meant to be in my pocket at all times, to buy foam shrimps.

There may be a dynamic in the group that you are not aware of. The previous leaders may well have suggested who should be sixers.

Leave the running of the group to the volunteers who are there. If you want to be so involved- volunteer yourself.

I was made Patrol Leader in Guides on my first day because the names were picked out of a hat - even though most of the other girls were older than me!

When my dds were Brownies, age was the deciding factor. They did all get to be a sixer and the oldest there were always the sixers.

not everyone gets to be a sixer. When I was a brownie it was done on merit rather than age (and I didn’t get to be one 😂).
Hasn’t held me back.
im sure she’ll get an chance next term or something.

To be honest this happened to me
I still feel slightly bitter about it

In the end it's Brown Owl's call- they are volunteers and you shouldn't pressurise them with concerns like this- your daughter will definitely have other reverses in her life- they very well may be better handled because of her experience.
The world is regrettably competitive, you can't, and shouldn't, insist your daughter is made a Sixer- it is open competition and the decision is Brown Owl's.
Will you complain when she is not made a prefect? Or when she doesn't get the internship she wants? When she doesn't get the boyfriend she wants? When the flat she wants falls through?
Your intervention is in no one's best interest- including your daughter.
Disappointment is a part of life your daughter needs to accept that, and so do you.

Used to be a Guide leader.

The new leader should be getting support / mentoring from a more experienced leader and following a Girlguiding specific leadership qualification (not sure what it's called nowadays).

Stuff is going to be wobbly until she's been doing it for a while / has more support (its not supposed to be usual for one person to run a Unit by themselves even if she's meeting the ratio requirements by using parent helpers).

There are lots of other leadership roles beyond being a sixer that leaders can give to Brownies - looking after new Brownies is one of them or greeting (expected) visitors or handing something out or running a game etc.

Four sixes of two girls each strikes me as unusual unless she's expecting an influx of new girls. There's often a need to rearrange sixes at the beginning of each term anyway.

Guiding is meant to be girl led - meaning the kids should get to choose at least some of what they do at Brownies. It's also meant to follow a programme that's adult led for the girls to achieve their Bronze /Silver/Gold awards and it may be difficult to get a good balance between the two.

Your daughter might like to pick an interest badge she can do at home with you. There's lots to be learnt re self motivation from that kind of thing.