Daughter not made a sixer when a younger child was

[tomtom88]

Ok so please be kind.

Daughter is in Brownies, the old leaders left recently and a new leader took over. I appreciate all the leaders are volunteers.

Without warning - the new leader allocated sixer and seconder roles, with my daughter being given a seconder role in a group of 2 where the other girl was the same age. In another group a child a year younger, who is a lovely girl but very scatty was given the sixer role. At the meeting brown owl said these are not permanent roles because sometimes I change things and swap things about.

Daughter gutted not to be a sixer.

I messaged brown owl in a very polite way thanking her for taking over the group, expressing that my daughter was disappointed, and drawing her attention to the fact a younger girl. I asked are these decisions permanent (she has implied they were not at the session)
Anyway she got back and said, oh your daughter will get the opportunity "at some point" eg not specified so could mean never if they cannot expand the group and then stated " she couldn't now take the opportunity to be a sixer off one of the other girls" although obviously by chosing the other girls and not being flexible she has effectively taken the opportunity to be a sixer from my daughter. I would have thought she should have given thought before allocating the younger girl in yr3 to be a sixer and perhaps swapped the girls over in their groups so the yr3 became the seconder and my daughter the sixer int he other group.

Long read - any thoughts

When I was in Brownies it was the oldest girls in each Six who were made Sixer. I looked forward to becoming Sixer with such anticipation and then when the time came where the older girls moved up to Guides, Brown Owl made my best friend (who was also in my Six) the Sixer instead of me, even though I was 2 months older, because she "really wanted it". I still carry a grudge because of it ;). My DD's have both been Brownies at different troops in the last couple of years and it was very much still the tradition at both of their troops; it seems foolish to break with tradition when it's so much easier to hide behind "sorry, tradition" and make the oldest girl Sixer.

Also, 4 different groups of 2 seems mad!

I attend a local Guides group frequently in a support capacity (not affiliated with the Guides organisation themselves, but to support someone who attends).

Yesterday when we went, it really hit me what a special and valuable thing it is, to have a regular group for young girls that is safe, secure, and focuses entirely on their well-being, potential and happiness. The girls last night were running around shrieking with joy and laughter in the ball game at the end of the meeting, after having spent most of the session working on making memory boxes, learning about bridge building and code breaking. They were laughing at things the leaders said, planning future trips (one of the girls is going to get to go camping and has never been before).

I got a bit emotional actually, watching them all at the end of the evening, because I've recently been reading about the repealing of women's rights in Afghanistan. No female medical practitioners. One in three girls married before their 18th birthday. There's a new edict that states that a woman must not be heard outside her home - women can't speak or vocalise at all in public.

I just think we need to get some perspective. Sorry if this seems heavy handed but it just really struck me because I was so emotional about this very thought last night. These important spaces for girls are so, so valuable, and we shouldn't take them for granted.

FORMER brownie leader here of 24 girls.

We all jacked it in together last year because of the parents.

Think on before you rock up at any volunteer group with nothing but support, love, a set of hands to offer help when you can.

I was into double figures each week of hours just to keep a unit afloat. I had been a leader for 25+ years.

The parents broke us.

It’s a bit of as worthless role anyway where OP is as so few children actually there!
Like being a tribe of two.

At a dog show years ago I saw a gorgeous black ex racer greyhound trotting along with a red rosette 🏵 fluttering from his collar-
I congratulated him and his owner - and she said that he was the only entrant in his class!

Oh and Sixer / Seconder - we start girls at the start of terms so we tried our best to give everyone a role.

Sometimes girls missed out, sometimes they were in the role just a few weeks before they left.

Does it matter? No. Did we give the older girls chances to lead things in meetings and not be in those roles. Absolutely.

Where possible guiding works to give everyone a chance to be good at what they can do in the group.

HTH.

You sound too in on top of it all op tbh. I'm not sure what age your daughter is and it's hard for her and she's upset of course but all you can do is hear her out..she'll move on and disappointments will get easier as she learns how it works that way.
My dc are cubs and scouts. I have heard a bit of brief chat about their groups, which must be a similar structure, but that's it, it's just a part of their weekly meeting and I suppose trips and hikes etc. I'm surprised you're so invested I suppose but you might think I'm uninterested! I'm not but it's a single event in their week amongst others, and amongst school and my work and family time etc so I bring them and collect them and they enjoy it and it's kept as simple as that.

You know what, your right.
This new person may have changed the rules.

This new person, who, has stepped up as someone else left, has come in and tried to take on this group the best they can.
Did this new person even know the kids that well when they took it over?

Maybe you should offer to be Brown Owl & ensure you follow all the exact same steps and processes your predecessor did (possibly with little or no hand over) and ensure it's 100% fair.

I mean, who would want someone else to come in and do the voluntrey work that you could do better.
Of course you won't mind sitting all the parents down and explaining every decision you make.

I think you need to look carefully at why the last person left.
Why was a new Brown Owl needed?
Do they have enough support?
We're they given a hand over? Did it tell them what this groups processes were?
I'm guessing everyone will run with slight nuance.

@recipientofraspberries thats lovely and the leaders would love the feedback.
That’s why I do it. I personally go a lot from brownies/guides as did my dd. I love spending time with the girls and giving them opportunities.

That is really sad to read.

Do you think parents have got more entitled as time has gone on?

Years ago parents paid the subs and left the volunteers to it.

They definitely have.
Back when we were kids our parents never got involved unless we were actually in danger (rare). Now the parents run the activities and schools. It’s so demoralizing.

I was a Brownie Leader.
We allocated the Sixer and Seconder roles to the most responsible girls/girls who attended most regularly/most helpful girls
These were usually amongst the oldest in the group, but not necessarily.
And parents who complained about how we (volunteers and usually working full time ourselves) ran the group got short shrift from me.
If you don't like how they do things, volunteer yourself.

@oakleaffy I miss the girls all the time.

The days before you could hide behind an email/ text/whatsapp were great. People came and spoke to us like humans. Snide messages at all hours…. People just didn’t turn up to events or didn’t pay us for weeks.

Nobody stepped up when we left but they had plenty to say when we were there.

Lots and lots of entitlement. People think because they are paying dance / drama / sports clubs £££ that put their daughters front and centre every week that the same rules should apply at Brownies.

No, we give everyone a fair chance and we are volunteers.

Also, stop paying for the singing and dancing lessons. It’s not doing a bit of good 😂

If you don't like the way the current Brown Owl is running things you obviously need to volunteer yourself @tomtom88 to take over all the millions of things a brown owl has to do to run a viable and happy Brownie group.
Being a sixer isn't exactly a right of passage or a right is it? You need to focus on helping your daughter cope with the disappointment rather than spend your time questioning a volunteers decisions.

When did you last volunteer to help at the Brownie group OP? Perhaps if you got to know the girls better you may understand why the current ones were picked to be sixer??

When I was in Year 3 we did an offbeat "Round the World" Christmas story rather than a Nativity. I started off as a penguin but got promoted to a postman (woman?) who went around the world to every country and narrating the story as I went. Then at the end, I tore off my postman costume for the big reveal, I was actually Jesus (wearing a toga) and gave a speech about Jesus spreading love at Christmas time (or something, it's a bit fuzzy).

It was the highlight of my school experience and I doubt I will ever experience the wild rollercoaster of emotions (the sadness of being separated from my penguin best friend halfway through rehearsals, the excitement of being cast in the biggest role, the smugness at returning to South Pole rehearsals and showing off my toga to the penguins, the anxiety at learning so many lines, the pride as I basked in the praise and adoration of my fans afterwards) again.

I peaked at 7.

This is what we still do! (Ireland) Unless, as someone said, there is an actual issue or question. We say thanks very much and off we go. We have an investiture this week which is always lovely. It's a great all round activity.

I am beginning to wonder is the new leader a touch high handed and insensitive and my daughter may not come off well from this.

I am beginning to wonder if @tomtom88 is a touch high handed and insensitive and her daughter may not come off well from this.

For the love of god, it's being a Sixer, not having a solo at the Royal Albert Hall. It's run by volunteers, the most recent of whom just stepped up - when you clearly didn't - to kindly facillitate a weekly activity for little girls.

You need some perspective and your daughter need to accept not everything pans out as we'd like.

I think you should do everyone a favour (including you and your daughter) and choose a different activity. You are overthinking this. There are so few children from what you have said, there seems no chance it will be able to continue.

This happened to me 44 years ago at Brownies and it stung. I had to hold it in cos quite frankly nobody at home would have cared. My face literally didn't fit at brownies because mum was a single parent on a rough council estate. - even though Brown Owl bought runner beans and tomatoes off from my grandad who iced on her street.

I'm sorry OP but your DD like me before her just needs to suck it up. Frankly I would have been mortified by your involvement.
DD will be fine. Life lessons and all that. Guides might be a much better experience.

PS if the lack of volunteers is a problem you could volunteer yourself.

I would assume the Brown Owl chose the best girls for the jobs and she thought your daughter was best suited to being a seconder.

You need to let it go.

Yes it’s been a real shift in attitude since Covid especially with the younger age groups.
Things like not telling us in advance when dc not coming so we waste time and money getting resources.
Parents sending lengthy emails over trivial matters.
Not reading emails/reminders and getting annoyed at leaders when child misses out.
Not paying on time/at all.
Virtually no one willing to help out occasionally when an extra pair of hands is needed.

Sounds like she’s just stuck with the current groups and given each person a role. The year 3 girl she made a sixer would of been the oldest in her group I’m guessing?

I think you were fine to ask but she’s told you your DD will get a chance and the roles will change so I’d just leave it now. She can’t take the role off the other girl straight away.

I never got to be out pack's Queen at the festival of Queens either. I got to be purse bearer once though because I had sold the most Sunny Smiles! Now that's a different story.😁

This whole saga is crying out for a sad face story in the Daily Mail.

Give it about 4 hours and I'm sure it will be.