4/4 Violin hunting

[Kutik73]

We've started hunting for a 4/4 violin for DS. We have visited two luthiers so far and each let us take one home. We can keep one for a week and another for two weeks.

DS likes one in particular and it costs £5500 for the violin alone. I know the price is not always mirrored to the quality of the sounds. It only makes difficult to judge as I don't play any instrument. So I did a bit of research and accidentally found the same violin being sold back in October for £1200-1800. It's auctioned so the exact selling price was not displayed. Looking at the photo, it has the same marks and scars so it's definitely the same violin we have here.

I can see the bridge, chin rest, and tuners has been replaced. But the selling notes stated the condition as excellent so I assume major work wasn't required by the luthier. But I don't know.

Surely luthiers have to make money so I understand it's common practice for them to buy something cheaper and add some work and sell at a higher price. But more than doubling the bought price sound quite a lot, especially it seemed to be in great conditions already.

Should I be careful or can I trust the luthier? I hope he is not pricing unnecessarily high... Any input/advice/sharing experiences would be greatly appreciated!

That is interesting about the carbon fibre bows. I have tried a few over the years -expensive and less expensive - and have never liked any as much as my crappy £120 wooden bow (which I don’t like that much!)

Shows that bow choice is intensely personal, I suppose.

It's awfully confusing for someone who don't play but is trying to help a child pick a right bow!!

A question is if DS has already developed his own preference (if so it'll be tricky in some ways).

Talking about trust between Luthiers and customers, there were those who photocopied driving license or credit card or took the teacher's name but plenty just let me take their £xxxx violins... One luthier said he would be cautious when a customer appeared to be a traveller... Usually a parent trying to get one for their child has a free pass to gain trust!

Stringers took a copy of my driving license but were very nice about everything. One luthier just said take these and try them out in your own home and don't worry, it's all insured.

But then that luthier knows someone who knows me. Another luthier I didn't know before took my address, but I guess I could have lied about it ...

We had driving license copies taken elsewhere never. This other luthier took details of our teacher etc. I just don't appreciate being ranted at down the phone in my working day over something he had said the opposite of in email

Violin duly returned to rather ratty luthier in my lunch break. He seemed a trifle disappointed that it was in perfect condition and questioned my understanding of English (I'm from here!). Might be a blessing in disguise. Kutik you describe him perfectly.

Hi Kutik, you'll be amused by DH's latest auction purchases..... he's become a tad obsessive in recent months.

So far (following on from the 2 cellos he's already bought), he's bought 3 cello bows at auction and 1 grand piano off Ebay. All without seeing or trying.

The first bow is an absolute bobby dazzler. Lovely pernambuco and DD and DS both love it. It was an absolute bargain.

The second bow was immediately bought off us by the kid's cello teacher. (DH insisted on a £1 profit as he's a business man!). She absolutely loved the bow the minute she tried it - her eyes literally lit up. She says it's the perfect bow for solos and ensembles - it gave a fuller sound than her normal bow. A bit of research suggests it was possibly worth 5x what we paid for it. But the kids preferred the first bow so we were happy for her to have it as she's now a very good friend of the family.

Then came the grand piano - bought off Ebay for not very much money (we needed to replace our old upright as it doesn't hold tune for more than a fortnight and is uneconomic to repair/replace the sound board). A Bluthner. It arrived a couple of weeks later and we are now week 3 into the settling in period - the tuner is coming at the end of next week. It looks beautiful for a 100 year old instrument and has been really well looked after. The previous owner, who sadly died, had had it in his family for 60 years. I think he'd be delighted to see how much it's being used by my 3 DC in the last couple of weeks. Assuming it tunes up well (it hasn't been tuned for 5 years), it's feeling like a real bargain. And it's a nice piece of furniture too.

Finally the 3rd cello bow which was very cheap and was always a bit suspicious looking. Another auction purchase from a non music specialist auction. Decent condition. Stamped Bausch - they make fantastic bows. Sadly, it's a fake - basically an entry level student bow made of Brazilwood. Thankfully the hammer price was only £40, but the postage was £25. Anyway, it'll make a decent spare!

So, I think we can give him 75% for his efforts....

Oh wow, I won't let my husband know about the grand piano from eBay, we are having to upgrade our upright as it refuses to stay in tune and is useless with the oboe. We have 99.9 percent decided on an electric one as we can get better quality for the price and it is only him that really hankers after a decent accoustic, I'm happy with electric. He reckons we would just about have space for a grand!

se22

MidLife, I'm very much impressed indeed! And also very envious that you have enough space to accommodate a grand piano...

horsey, we have both acrostic and digital and both serves well for the purpose. If piano is not your first instrument digital can be a great choice. But it does limit learning techniques in my opinion. But then it may be true that it would be better than a dying acoustic piano!

Morning all, so yesterday we went violin shopping to Woodbridge Violins in Suffolk. As we're in Essex it's about an hour and a half from us on a good day. Ds's violin teacher didn't want us to go there and was insistent that he come with us and choose it for him. We said no (tho ha are not going well with this teacher and we are moving away from him against dh's wishes).

We had a budget in mind and we would p/ex his 3/4 violin which we got from there.

Russell was wonderful as ever. As we were looking for violin and bow we told him what our budget was and that we couldn't go over it and he said that was fine. He brought out 4 Violins initially. We didn't know the price of any of them. Ds tried them he immediately discounted 2. He played the other 2 a bit more but was unsure. Russell brought out another 2 and ds put both of those aside as possibles. They both had a lovely tone but I couldn't pick one over the other.

We asked Russell to come and play them and give us his opinion. He chose one over the other saying that it had a lovely feel to it and said that playing it was effortless. Dh and I agreed. He said similar about the other one but the first one had the edge. He got ds to play them and ds picked the other one i.e. not the one that we all thought sounded better. Ds just preferred it!!

Then we went on to bows. Ds has been playing with a carbon fibre bow with his 3/4 but he wanted to try wooden but really wanted a round stick rather than octagonal as he finds it more comfy?? Russell brought out about 5 bows varying massively in price from under £100 upto £400. We went through the same process but also ds felt the weight of it and did a few other things. He discounted 3 straight away but there were 2 clear favourites. Russell came back and tried them all and him,dh and I all liked the same one. Ds tried them again but opted for the other one!! Russell said good on him for standing by his own choice and not be swayed by others' opinions.
It was all a bit stressful in many ways as ds was clearly overwhelmed and had bought with him a ridiculously hard piece of music which he can play but not very accurately and tbh I thought it sounded bloody awful but hey ho. He did play a couple of grade 6 pieces including the Intermezzo and Mozart. I dread to think what Russell thought of his playing 😩. We have it on a weeks approval before we have to pay or not. He has chamber orchestra (string ensemble)on Monday night so he will take it with him and get the tutors to look it over. They all know Woodbridge Violins well. He also has a trial on Friday after school with a new teacher who is a violinist so we will see what she thinks. He loves it though and unless there is something fundamentally wrong,we will go with it.

Phew!! Just got to buy a nice case now!!

horseymum - We have a Yamaha clavinova and it has been used for the last year or so to accompany the kids in their music lessons, but nobody likes playing it. DH and DC insist that the feel of a clavinova is not the same...... they are keyboard snobs and insisted on a piano. If you shop around you can find bargain grands - the market for them has really dried up. To give you an indication, ours cost lest than a Howarth S20 oboe (and that includes the transportation cost...!!!). Obviously go for a mini grand as you won't need something with a concert hall sound unless your living room is the size of the Festival Hall....

Thanks for the update disorganised and great to hear the happy news.

We have clavinova too and while it serves its own purpose yes it is different from real piano and it can be frustrating if your expectation is too high. But it serves the purpose. I personally like Korg for digital option. They are not as expensive as clavinova but feel closer to acoustic piano (for me anyway and I'm not a pianist so zero qualification to make such a claim to be honest).

DS has a weekly piano lesson at the teacher's home. She has a lovely Steinway in a small living room but it doesn't sound too loud. She keeps it half open or completely closed.

I am also a snob when it comes to pianos. I find clavinovas and digital keyboards extremely frustrating. You just can't get a sound out of them!

I would say it's like going into a Japanese restaurant run by Chinese chef. Nothing wrong with Chinese chef but they have totally different culture and taste and when you expect to have authentic Japanese cuisine a bit of different touch from traditional cooking can be a real let down. But if you expect to have Asian fusion it can be enjoyable. Basically digital can be a huge put off if you expect real touch but by its own it does a job.

We've got to appreciate and make do with what we have otherwise someone will soon start debate over upright vs grand piano!

And clavinovas are flimsy. You can't imagine playing Rachmaninoff on it. (Actually I have once. And it wobbled.)

Well said @kutik73

We can all look down on instruments - that's easy. They serve a purpose. Nothing is as good as the best, but if it allows people to place music, then I am not going to have an opinion on it. Things change at the higher grades, but generally there is time before that.

I took my stentor violin to a very well known luthier for years before I bought a 'proper' one. He treated it as well as all the other instruments. When I got my professional one (via a couple of upgrades), the difference is obviously worlds apart. But I'd never knock a beginner instrument (I would encourage the owner to get is set up by a professional, but that is another matter.

Apologies if I've misunderstood your tone, NeverEver

While DS adores his U3, he says the teacher's Steinway is easier to play (trills etc). But I suppose U3 is nice enough for someone who doesn't play piano seriously!

The piano at the exam centre we use is truly awful. Very hard to play dynamics. But the teacher says she still expects her pupils to play well in any condition. She says it's good to get used to playing varieties of piano as being able to adjust your playing accordingly is a crucial skill as a good pianist. You can't carry your instrument like violin!!

ColourOfRain, I think it's OK to have an opinion or even strongly dislike something. NeverEver is a passionate pianist so she has every right to get frustrated by the limitation of digital.

Oh I am all for getting a good clavinova rather than a bad piano. And I'm not foolish enough to think that a piano suits every situation. If I couldn't get a piano I would go for a clavinova.

As a non-violinist trying to buy a violin I've also had to navigate pure snobbery (my previous post ) and what really lies under, and weigh practicality and opinions and money.

NeverEver

Out of curiosity, if money and living environment are allowed, which piano will you get? Is there your dream piano? Is grand piano it is always? Just wonder. I am not a pianist!

NeverEver

kutik No dream piano and no particular name. Not necessarily a grand. I 'll know it when I see it.