Brexit MegaThread - part 14

[Peregrina]

Thread 13. We had a debate about whether there should be a new one but if no one answers this the whole series after 8 years plus will come to their end.

Brexit happened, although one time Leavers do not seem to appreciate this.
It's worth noting I think that Brexit was a Tory initiative and the Tory party has just received its worse electoral thrashing since 1832. Could it be entirely unrelated?

What next? A gradual rapprochement with the EU? A Norway style agreement?

Eagerly awaits GlobeGPT's word salad response

They knew what they voted for

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/devon-fishermen-left-feeling-betrayed-9741609?

@MaybeNotBob

Albania is not an EU member, but both Denmark and Germany returned all Albanians to Albania on the basis that it's a safe country. So, where does the idea that deportation can only occur between EU members come from?

@Peregrina

Article 50 was triggered by 498 elected MP's on 29 March 2017, not by Farage or any of the 17.4 million who voted leave 23 June 2016.

In 2018 the EU informed that UK they could unilaterally revoke.

In 2019, the LibDem manifesto stated that if they were elected, Brexit would not happen. Had the 16.1 million who voted remain in 2016 voted for the LibDems, this thread would not exist.

Only the remain supporters can explains why they chose not to vote Lib Dem in the 2019 general election. A question that has been asked several times, but never answered.

Labour won the 2024 general election and doubled their seat count even though they received fewer votes than in 2019. The BBC articles referenced above make it clear that discussion with EU will not result in reversal of Brexit.

@DuncinToffee

None of the fish shops near where I live have closed. In fact there are two more than before 1 January 2021. Bells they are called.

Almost 12 pounds for fish and chips, but always a queue. So, I am not convinced the UK's fishing industry has gone bankrupt.

As for UK rejoining the EU, I would say that is very unlikely. Reasons are simple:

Both France and Germany will be afraid that it could be interpreted as an admission that the EU is better off with UK as a member.

Spain will want Gibraltar.

@SerendipityJane

The petition is now 55,000. Hardly spectacular.

I wonder how many people have applied for the negotiator's job?

Bob, step away from the mirror

https://www.westcountryvoices.co.uk/how-fishing-was-gutted-by-brexit/

Eagerly awaits GlobeGPT's word salad response

Stock answer will be EU bullying us.
I saw my name was mentioned on the previous post, but I couldn't be bothered to read a lesson on the history of the last 8 years.

Almost 12 pounds for fish and chips, but always a queue. So, I am not convinced the UK's fishing industry has gone bankrupt.

I myself deplore the increasing cost of citrus fruit, but as I can see many people still buying oranges in Asda, I conclude that the orange groves of the United Kingdom remain productive. Hey ho!

Ah, wasn't it worth the wait!

...even if it had absolutely nothing to do with what I posted...

But we now know about Globe's local chippy.....

I really don't remember seeing many chippies in St Petersburg...

I can just hear a deep Russian accented voice saying :

"Feeesh anda cheeeps"
"Feish ada chyps"
"Fiish and chiips"

as their trainer hones their accent to Americans level of perfection

But it is award winning fish and chips

Net migration numbers are out today

Ed Conway

But the main thing we learnt today is the sheer quantum of immigration in recent years was greater than ever before. Some of this is post-covid bounceback. An bigger part of the explanation is post-Brexit changes in migration rules. See if you can spot the Brexit impact here👇

IIRC, one of the ardent Brexiteers who used to post on here talked about having an immigration lawyer son who complained about EU migration into the UK. On these threads, she went on about how Brexit would properly manage immigration numbers. Doesn’t seem to be working out that way. It’s a tricky issue but the likes of Farage is going to completely weaponise this leading up to the next election. Whereas it needs a proper grown up conversation.

8 years on, the best comment on Brexit is that you'll never find a happy Brexiteer. Much like a nice South African, for people who get the joke.

I just spent a couple of days in deepest Norfolk.
On the way home I listened to the outwash from the abetted suicide debate
my frustration grows
with the cowardice and short sightedness of Starmer
he is such a disappointment

with a stonking majority and 4 years he could
DO GOOD
bur he has no spine

What do you mean? Starmer didn't bring the bill and MPs were free to vote as they wished. So why are you blaming him?

You might not agree with the bill but it was a free vote and the debate beforehand was conducted in a respectful and compassionate way.

Kim Leadbeater deserves a lot of praise

This makes no sense.

I don't want a precedent of PMs getting involved along party lines with debates like this.

Would you like to see a Farage administration whipping MPs over reducing the limit for terminations ? That would certainly not be a spineless move.

Remember the wise counsel from "Yes Minister".

https://wiki.c2.com/?YesMinisterCourageValue

Predictable Fartage...

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/reform-uk-skip-debate-on-future-of-fishing-after-claiming-they-are-only-interested-party-386554/

I was tired last night.
My point was that Starmer seems determined to waste political capital.

Winter fuel allowance decision was dire politics
The budget is full of bad politics.

Wes Streeting said that he would vote against assisted dying because of patchy / poor palliative care.
Starmer could have built political capital for NHS changes by strongly backing that aspect - but did not.

He could go full steam on free movement for under 30's - which would help with the NHS issues
but isn't

My point was that Starmer seems determined to waste political capital.
Winter fuel allowance decision was dire politics
The budget is full of bad politics.

Is playing politics well synonymous with competent government ?

Which would you rather have ?

@SerendipityJane
The budget should have been done sooner, or the fuel allowance deferred to the budget
as then the offsetting of pension uplift with fuel allowance could have been clarified

Leaving the budget so long after the election allowed the media to control the narrative
then again the handling of the spectacles donations was rather a spectacle

I thought Starmer would have been better at messaging but he seems to hate it

So basically, as long as the messaging is OK, the country can go to shit ?

I don't think that is what you are saying, but it's one way of reading it.

Personally, I don't care if Keir Starmer was wearing clown shoes, whilst dancing the macarena and singing Auld Lang Syne in Klingon if he was heading a government that was starting the gargantuan task of undoing 14 years of deliberate decay.

And if anyone else on MN uses the word "gargantuan" in a post today, I have 0.00001BTC to transfer 😎